Webley Mk 3 & Diana model 45 ?

[cringe]

Hi , it has been a bit quite , and I have not been able to find much information on this ? but is the webbo mk3 the same as the Diana 45? , if so it would appear that us Brits have been looking through rose tinted glasses since 1947 - extolling the craftmanship of British engineering & design etc- when actually it was made in Germany in early 1930,s ?
I have 3x mk 3 but not a "45" I wonder if the the part's are interchangeable?

might have been discussed previously ?

kind regards Al

[45flint]

Yes Webley decided before wars end to make a copy of the Diana 45. It is a pretty exact copy but the tap is on the other side. I suspect it has more power given prewar Diana’s were pretty tame? I had a chance to hold a Diana 45 at a gun show last month. I actually thought it felt better a little lighter? But my Webley Mk 3 is about as good as it gets? Finishwise Webley can’t be beat.

[Geezer]

As above. I doubt anything is interchangeable. Webley copied the design, rather than buying any tooling. And in inch not metric. The very early Webleys also copied the excellent Diana trigger, but quickly moved to a cheaper, simpler and possibly more robust design.

[AC99]

I have a first series mk 3 with the Diana-design double pull trigger but the design is unnecessarily complex, has built-in weaknesses and was discontinued in later series for a more robust and simple design.

In fact Dennis Hiller warns owners of these first series rifles, "DON'T USE IT" for fear of the outer tube in the trigger mechanism shearing, although I have admittedly fired mine a few times but had I not seen Denis's warning I would have shot it a lot more!

[laverdabru]

Yes, I was quite surprised when I found that what I had always thought of as one of the classic post war rifle designs was a copy of a German one...& not the only one, according to the Thrale book. See also Falcon, Junior etc.
Another of my interests is motorcycles, & the (in)famous BSA Bantam is a copy of a DKW(?) design, allegedly.
Recently I was reading an old bike mag. The quintessential BMW is a flat, horizontally opposed, air cooled twin, first made c. 1923 - bears a strong resemblance to an ABC (All British Cycle) motorbike of an earlier year.

ATB

Bru

[trajectory]

Yes, I was quite surprised when I found that what I had always thought of as one of the classic post war rifle designs was a copy of a German one...& not the only one, according to the Thrale book. See also Falcon, Junior etc.
Another of my interests is motorcycles, & the (in)famous BSA Bantam is a copy of a DKW(?) design, allegedly.
Recently I was reading an old bike mag. The quintessential BMW is a flat, horizontally opposed, air cooled twin, first made c. 1923 - bears a strong resemblance to an ABC (All British Cycle) motorbike of an earlier year.

ATB

Bru

In a similar vein, early post war Bristol cars had a mechanical similarity to the pre war BMW's.

What were the Falcons based on? I hadn't realised they had ancestery.

[Geezer]

In a similar vein, early post war Bristol cars had a mechanical similarity to the pre war BMW's.

What were the Falcons based on? I hadn't realised they had ancestery.

The Bristols were based on war reparations for at least the designs (but not, I think, the tooling) of the BMW 328 (engine), 326 (chassis) and 327 (some body parts in the initial model).

The Falcon wasn’t a direct copy of anything, but its parts are clearly made by Milbro using a Diana-style design and almost certainly made using the Diana tooling that Millard Bros got cheap as reparations. Basically a Diana 27-based action in a different stock.

[laverdabru]

The Bristols were based on war reparations for at least the designs (but not, I think, the tooling) of the BMW 328 (engine), 326 (chassis) and 327 (some body parts in the initial model).

The Falcon wasn’t a direct copy of anything, but its parts are clearly made by Milbro using a Diana-style design and almost certainly made using the Diana tooling that Millard Bros got cheap as reparations. Basically a Diana 27-based action in a different stock.

Ah, that must be why I like my Falcon so much, reminds me of the 27 that was my first air rifle
Sure I've seen somewhere about it being a copy of a Diana, & discussed by the Webley board. but probably having a senior moment

ATB

Bru

[Geezer]

Ah, that must be why I like my Falcon so much, reminds me of the 27 that was my first air rifle
Sure I've seen somewhere about it being a copy of a Diana, & discussed by the Webley board. but probably having a senior moment

ATB

Bru

If you’ve read Chris Thrale’s book, the Board discussions were about buying Diana’s machinery in 1948. They offered £10,000, but Milbro outbid them. And they talked about copying the Diana 45 anyway, which they did.

[MDriskill]

Side by side. The D45 is a first version which precedes the 2-stage trigger; the Mk 3 is a Thrale "series 3" coming after the 2-stage trigger.

[evert]

Then if we look even a bit further back the Diana 45 seems to be inspired by pre-war BSA's...

[trajectory]

The Bristols were based on war reparations for at least the designs (but not, I think, the tooling) of the BMW 328 (engine), 326 (chassis) and 327 (some body parts in the initial model).

The Falcon wasn’t a direct copy of anything, but its parts are clearly made by Milbro using a Diana-style design and almost certainly made using the Diana tooling that Millard Bros got cheap as reparations. Basically a Diana 27-based action in a different stock.

Thank you

I think I might just add a Falcon to my "wanted" list, anything based in a 27 can't be all bad can it, & a .177 version might be a good plinker & an interesting comparison to the 1/4 & 1/2 stocked versions. The Bristol will have to wait, they cost more!

[45flint]

Side by side. The D45 is a first version which precedes the 2-stage trigger; the Mk 3 is a Thrale "series 3" coming after the 2-stage trigger.

Have you chronyed the Diana? Was it date stamped?

[cringe]

Hi , just a theory ? Re: repatriations ? Mel-Bro won all of Diana's tooling etc 'post war' they were gifted [grants , subsidy's cheap rates etc] by government at time to create work & jobs. in poor areas?
So , Melbro sets up factory etc, in Motherwell. But wee problem ! we can not drop forge in Motherwell, I guess that is when Web & scot come into story ?
As I say it is only my thoughts , so Webbo being in steel city at the time , get original moulds for 'D 45' from melbro, & may be customise them ? left hand -right hand tap? etc. ?

Hi , 45 flint , sorry I do not want to appear disrespectful , but to be truth full I doubt very much that Webley & Scot had any idear when the war was going to end , it could have all gone "tit's up " & we would all be speaking German! kind regards Al.

[T 20]

Cough --- Milbro the trading name of Millard Brothers.

And I'm only pointing this out as it screws up future members searches.