Webley Mk 3 & Diana model 45 ?

[cringe]

Hi , it has been a bit quite , and I have not been able to find much information on this ? but is the webbo mk3 the same as the Diana 45? , if so it would appear that us Brits have been looking through rose tinted glasses since 1947 - extolling the craftmanship of British engineering & design etc- when actually it was made in Germany in early 1930,s ?
I have 3x mk 3 but not a "45" I wonder if the the part's are interchangeable?

might have been discussed previously ?

kind regards Al

[45flint]

Yes Webley decided before wars end to make a copy of the Diana 45. It is a pretty exact copy but the tap is on the other side. I suspect it has more power given prewar Diana’s were pretty tame? I had a chance to hold a Diana 45 at a gun show last month. I actually thought it felt better a little lighter? But my Webley Mk 3 is about as good as it gets? Finishwise Webley can’t be beat.

[Geezer]

As above. I doubt anything is interchangeable. Webley copied the design, rather than buying any tooling. And in inch not metric. The very early Webleys also copied the excellent Diana trigger, but quickly moved to a cheaper, simpler and possibly more robust design.

[AC99]

I have a first series mk 3 with the Diana-design double pull trigger but the design is unnecessarily complex, has built-in weaknesses and was discontinued in later series for a more robust and simple design.

In fact Dennis Hiller warns owners of these first series rifles, "DON'T USE IT" for fear of the outer tube in the trigger mechanism shearing, although I have admittedly fired mine a few times but had I not seen Denis's warning I would have shot it a lot more!

[laverdabru]

Yes, I was quite surprised when I found that what I had always thought of as one of the classic post war rifle designs was a copy of a German one...& not the only one, according to the Thrale book. See also Falcon, Junior etc.
Another of my interests is motorcycles, & the (in)famous BSA Bantam is a copy of a DKW(?) design, allegedly.
Recently I was reading an old bike mag. The quintessential BMW is a flat, horizontally opposed, air cooled twin, first made c. 1923 - bears a strong resemblance to an ABC (All British Cycle) motorbike of an earlier year.

ATB

Bru

[trajectory]

Yes, I was quite surprised when I found that what I had always thought of as one of the classic post war rifle designs was a copy of a German one...& not the only one, according to the Thrale book. See also Falcon, Junior etc.
Another of my interests is motorcycles, & the (in)famous BSA Bantam is a copy of a DKW(?) design, allegedly.
Recently I was reading an old bike mag. The quintessential BMW is a flat, horizontally opposed, air cooled twin, first made c. 1923 - bears a strong resemblance to an ABC (All British Cycle) motorbike of an earlier year.

ATB

Bru

In a similar vein, early post war Bristol cars had a mechanical similarity to the pre war BMW's.

What were the Falcons based on? I hadn't realised they had ancestery.

[Garvin]

, if so it would appear that us Brits have been looking through rose tinted glasses since 1947 - extolling the craftmanship of British engineering & design etc- when actually it was made in Germany in early 1930,s ?

Yes, but as Evert points out, all the prewar Diana underlevers were based on (ie. pinched from) the Lincoln Jeffries design - starting in approx. 1915 with the first model Diana 58 military trainer (that is, a British air rifle design being re-purposed to train Germans to kill Brits more efficiently with firearms in WW1 ).

So indirectly, the Webley Mk3 can be attributed to the genius of LJ...

What this reflects is two advanced industrial economies piggy-backing/leapfrogging each other for advantage, militarily and otherwise, on and off through the 20th century.


Edit:

I wonder if the the parts are interchangeable?

Some parts might be interchangeable with a bit of tweaking. It may not be comparable but I remember sending Frank some 1930s BSA parts to fit in his series 3 Diana 58 and I think the tap/lever and tap cover did.

https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....-58/#post-2510

[cringe]

Yes, but as Evert points out, all the prewar Diana underlevers were based on (ie. pinched from) the Lincoln Jeffries design - starting in approx. 1915 with the first model Diana 58 military trainer (that is, a British air rifle design being re-purposed to train Germans to kill Brits more efficiently with firearms in WW1 ).

So indirectly, the Webley Mk3 can be attributed to the genius of LJ...

What this reflects is two advanced industrial economies piggy-backing/leapfrogging each other for advantage, militarily and otherwise, on and off through the 20th century.

Forged Steel.
Looking at the design of , for instance 'under leavers' they appear to me to be so similar that ? could they have all come from the same factory / forge ?

[Garvin]

Forged Steel.
Looking at the design of , for instance 'under leavers' they appear to me to be so similar that ? could they have all come from the same factory / forge ?

I doubt it.