Advice on filling a empty gun off divers tank

[WILBA]

Looking for advice here chaps. Went in gun cabinate today to wipe down and fire a few pellets through my b&m bullpup daystate ph6 to find the gun was empty so seal gone or slow leak most likely. Tried filling and heared a hiss near block. Cocked gun and it took air but not showing gun pressure on divers tank reg. Gauge working when filling and showing tank pressure. Now i was to shit to carry on filling the gun as not knowing the pressure worred me. Gun cocked and dry fired so air was enough to stay in gun so guessing there must be at least 100bar to keep the guns fill valve closed. Any idears as i dont have a hand pump as back up as that could have been a safer way to check the gun pressure than trying the tank again. And a springer guy mostly so not as clued up on tank reg problems as others on here. Just dont want to risk a bad accident over filling the gun as you can understand. And ideas or answers id be most greatful chris

[angrybear]

Don't quite understand when you say gauge on tank not showing, but something worked when filling ?
is there a gauge or manometer on the rifle or is it only the cylinder gauge ?
if there's a gauge on the rifle just go by that, until you replace the cylinder gauge.

If not just be methodical, reconnect the rifle, close the cylinder bleed valve, slowly crack open the main valve while you watch the gauge,
if you hear the rifle valve open & hear air flowing but the gauge does not show, then stop, you need to replace the cyl gauge before doing anything else simple as that.

Remember of course that the cyl gauge registers against the outlet back pressure in the hose (unless you have a dual gauge regulator fitted to the outlet)

[Jesim1]

I'm also a little unsure of what your saying?

But if you are filling the gun with the cylinder connected, then both gauges should be working if everything is correct.

If your guns gauge is not working then perhaps that is broken, if the dive cylinder gauge is not working then perhaps that one is broken, but it's very unlikely that both would have failed.

If the cylinder gauge is working while your filling, but then goes to zero when you stop, then your connection whip is leaking, as it's not holding air between the cylinder and the whip.

If this is the case, it may be that you have put some air into the gun - but not enough to register on the guns gauge, and the pressure you have seen on the whip is not real, as its pouring out somewhere, so giving a false reading.

I'd initially make sure the whip was working properly by using a blanking plug or another gun to check it. If that is all good, then check the foster fitting to the Daystate to make sure it's connecting properly and not leaking. If that is also good, then slowly fill your gun and the cylinder gauge should reflect this, the guns gauge should also reflect this, but perhaps be a few bar behind as the pressure in your cylinder is "pushing" up the pressure in your gun.

Like all things, if you have someone local they could get to the bottom of this is seconds if they know what they are doing, it may be worth a shout out if you can't get is yourself

James

[WILBA]

Ok. When i open the tank it shows the tank pressure.when i close it it should show the guns tank pressure. When i shut the valve it aint showing the guns tank pressure. Thats why my A hole is twitching as i dont know what pressure is in the gun. Both guns aint showing any pressure so could there be a fault on the divers tank regulator?

[Phil Russell]

To start at the beginning.
Close the bleed valve on the line from the tank. This could be a 'turn' screw or an automatic push button. If you cock the rifle then connect rifle to tank and slowly open the tank valve to let air into the rifle, the guage on the tank will show pressure increasing as the airline pressure rises. There should then be a 'click' as the rifle inlet valve opens and air goes into the rifle. But if rifle is empty the click may not be there and air will flow into rifle straight away. The gauge on the rifle, assuming there is one, should now show the pressure of the air in the rifle and the tank guage the same pressure, almost. I think the PH6 charges to c 160bar? Anyway, don't go above it or even go to about 120 bar at this point. If during this operation you can hear air escaping then you have a problem to investigate. If you manage to get air into the rifle and then close the valve on the tank (at about 120 bar on the tank guage) and open the bleed valve on the line between rifle and tank then, all being well the air in the rifle should stay there while the excess air in the line between rifle and tank should escape. If all air in the rifle escapes at this point then you have a problem with the inlet valve on the rifle as it is not sealing to keep the air in. Air could escape from the inlet valve mounting (usually a dowty washer) or from the internal seal in the valve
If air is going into the rifle but not registering on the gauges you may be able to tell where it is going: likely escape routes are from where the gauge screws into the rifle, if it has one, or down the barrel if the rifle exhaust valve is faulty or even a fault in the air line between rifle and tank.

Good luck
Cheers, Phil

[angrybear]

Ok. When i open the tank it shows the tank pressure.when i close it it should show the guns tank pressure. When i shut the valve it aint showing the guns tank pressure. Thats why my A hole is twitching as i dont know what pressure is in the gun. Both guns aint showing any pressure so could there be a fault on the divers tank regulator?

Er not quite,

Firstly you need to close & seal the circuit, that can be with a blanking plug, or by fitting the rifle to the end of the hose.

Now when you open the cylinder valve the gauge on the cyl will show the back pressure in the hose, up to the pressure that is in the cyl,

if that pressure exceeds the pressure in the rifle it will force open the rifle fill valve and you will hear the air flow in to the rifle.

As the rifle fill valve opens you should see the cyl gauge flick down to whatever the rifle contains & while filling the cyl gauge reads for the whole system including rifle.

When you close the cyl valve the gauge reads what is in both the hose & the rifle, and should hold that pressure until you vent it,

then you open the vent to drain the hose so that it can be disconnected & the cyl gauge drops to zero.

Obviously, you cannot fill the rifle with more pressure than the cyl contains & at every rifle fill the cyl pressure will drop until it to needs a refill.

Also you keep saying 'regulator', when it probably isn't one, which is pretty confusing.
a regulator is a device to control the amount of pressure that comes out of a cylinder it will have two gauges one for the cyl pressure & one to set the outlet pressure.

The cyl has a 'Valve' to open & close which on a surface cyl has a gauge & bleed valve built in to it,
or on a scuba tank without a gauge, you should have an Airgun Adaptor which has a gauge, bleed valve & the hose which fit to the cyl outlet.

[WILBA]

Er not quite,

Firstly you need to close & seal the circuit, that can be with a blanking plug, or by fitting the rifle to the end of the hose.

Now when you open the cylinder valve the gauge on the cyl will show the back pressure in the hose, up to the pressure that is in the cyl,

if that pressure exceeds the pressure in the rifle it will force open the rifle fill valve and you will hear the air flow in to the rifle.

As the rifle fill valve opens you should see the cyl gauge flick down to whatever the rifle contains & while filling the cyl gauge reads for the whole system including rifle.

When you close the cyl valve the gauge reads what is in both the hose & the rifle, and should hold that pressure until you vent it,

then you open the vent to drain the hose so that it can be disconnected & the cyl gauge drops to zero.

Obviously, you cannot fill the rifle with more pressure than the cyl contains & at every rifle fill the cyl pressure will drop until it to needs a refill.

Also you keep saying 'regulator', when it probably isn't one, which is pretty confusing.
a regulator is a device to control the amount of pressure that comes out of a cylinder it will have two gauges one for the cyl pressure & one to set the outlet pressure.

The cyl has a 'Valve' to open & close which on a surface cyl has a gauge & bleed valve built in to it,
or on a scuba tank without a gauge, you should have an Airgun Adaptor which has a gauge, bleed valve & the hose which fit to the cyl outlet.

My bad angrybear. So the dive cylinder valve with guage is just a valve. Sorry i though wrong. Ok so i need tp keep the pressure going to force open the gun valve? The gun is empty so the valve should be open due to no pressure in the gun? Never had to fill a completely empty gun before so that why i was concerned not seeing pressure when i closed the dive tank valve. Just a bit twitchy as i mentioned earlier i have not had to fill a empty gun before so made me a bit nervous seeing no pressure reading when valve in tank was closed. Thanks very much for all the comments. Bloody springers are so much easier

[costalotpanther]

Looking for advice here chaps. Went in gun cabinate today to wipe down and fire a few pellets through my b&m bullpup daystate ph6 to find the gun was empty so seal gone or slow leak most likely. Tried filling and heared a hiss near block. Cocked gun and it took air but not showing gun pressure on divers tank reg. Gauge working when filling and showing tank pressure. Now i was to shit to carry on filling the gun as not knowing the pressure worred me. Gun cocked and dry fired so air was enough to stay in gun so guessing there must be at least 100bar to keep the guns fill valve closed. Any idears as i dont have a hand pump as back up as that could have been a safer way to check the gun pressure than trying the tank again. And a springer guy mostly so not as clued up on tank reg problems as others on here. Just dont want to risk a bad accident over filling the gun as you can understand. And ideas or answers id be most greatful chris

I had the same problem with my PH6.
I collect rather than shoot often.
So when I went to it I found it had no air.
It had been recently professionally resealed but wouldn't refill from my tank.
The cure was to open and close, open and close quite quickly until the rifle started to fill.
It worked for me.
Not an uncommon problem with the PH6 I believe.
I now check that all my pcps are full of air by testing every 6 months or so.
Apologies if anyone has already suggested this cure.

[WILBA]

Update. Ok so followed angry bears advice and all now is ok. It took a good few short and sharp blasts of air to get the ph6's fill valve to open. But now the gun is filled to 160bar and seems to be holding air ok why it dumped its air is a mystery so just maybe a very slow leak somewhere. Thanks all for the advise, education and support. Chris.

[angrybear]

Glad it worked out OK, I was a bit concerned that you had managed to over fill the first time.

[WILBA]

Glad it worked out OK, I was a bit concerned that you had managed to over fill the first time.

Well i think as you had mentioned in your replies the rifle fill valve was sticking so it was the whip pressure i was seeing. Thanks so much for your help. Nice to keep leaning even at my age. Chris