Advice on filling a empty gun off divers tank

[angrybear]

There could be a couple of issues here. You are already aware that for some reason the rifle has lost it's pressure.
I'd advise not trying to fill the rifle, any further, unless you can confirm the cylinder valve is working correctly.

Firstly, I'd suggest confirming that your cylinder has enough pressure as your cylinder could be empty. You'll need to get a blanking plug from Best fittings, or borrow one.
Fit the plug in the end of the whip and crack the cylinder valve open.
The bottle gauge will then read the pressure in the cylinder as the pressure in the cylinder and whip will equalise.
You really need to have more pressure in the cylinder, than the rifle fills to, or you only get a part fill.
When you've gone through that, and you are sure you have enough pressure in the cylinder, and the cylinder gauge works, then try a fill on a mate's "known" rifle just to be sure.

If you have confirmed you have enough air, and gauge is working then carry on
When your rifle is connected to your dive cylinder, and you open the cylinder valve, the cylinder valve shows the pressure in the whip. When the fill valve opens on the rifle, the cylinder gauge then shows the equalised pressure in the rifle and whip.
When you decide to close the cylinder valve, the pressure in the whip / rifle, should remain static on the cylinder gauge until you operate the pressure relief valve on the cylinder. At this point, the rifle fill valve will seal, and the whip pressure is vented.
If the cylinder pressure shown on the whip falls, when you close the valve, you have a problem with the cylinder gauge.

I'm (possibly wrongly) assuming that your PH6 bullpup, has no gauge. This makes things a bit harder as you may have a rifle fault, though you may not.
If rifles are shot low in pressure, and you can't judge this if you have no gauge, if there is too little air pressure on the exhaust valve the valve can open and the rifle will empty. This is caused by the hammer spring forcing the hammer onto the exhaust valve preventing it sealing.
This can prevent a rifle filling properly, and its then necessary to cock the rifle, to take the pressure off the hammer, allowing the valve to seal.

So to summarise. Check the cylinder gauge is operating and that you have enough air in the cylinder, before trying to fill the rifle any further.

Can we stick with using the correct name for components please

A "Pressure Relief Valve" is a pre set automatic safety device, that opens to vent excess pressure before before it reaches a dangerous level,
the thing you open to vent the hose/whip is a "Bleed Valve"

Sorry that's rubbish,
If the pressure in the whip drops between closing the cyl valve & opening the bleed, all it means is that there's a pressure leak nothing to do with the cyl gauge unless that's where the leak is

[robs5230]

Can we stick with using the correct name for components please

A "Pressure Relief Valve" is a pre set automatic safety device, that opens to vent excess pressure before before it reaches a dangerous level,
the thing you open to vent the hose/whip is a "Bleed Valve"

Sorry that's rubbish,
If the pressure in the whip drops between closing the cyl valve & opening the bleed, all it means is that there's a pressure leak nothing to do with the cyl gauge unless that's where the leak is

You need to get out more.

Lets see if his cylinder is charged first eh?
And if there was a leak on the whip, do you think he might not have noticed it?

[WILBA]

You need to get out more.

Lets see if his cylinder is charged first eh?
And if there was a leak on the whip, do you think he might not have noticed it?

Hi chaps. There is shoeing on guage 260bar innthe dive cylinder. Ph6 takes 170bar.

[angrybear]

You need to get out more.

Lets see if his cylinder is charged first eh?
And if there was a leak on the whip, do you think he might not have noticed it?

So is there something wrong with asking you to call an item by the correct term ? a PRV is not the same as a bleed screw.

How are people supposed to learn the correct & safe way to do something, if not from reading the correct information, identifying the correct parts, in the first place

The first post says the gauge is registering the cyl pressure which indicates to me that it contains air, granted no figure was given.

Yes I would hope he would notice a leak, but stating the whip pressure dropping means the gauge is at fault is still wrong

OK Wilba
260bar should certainly be enough to unstick the rifle valve, but what concerns me is how do you know ?

did you check that with a blanking plug or did it show that when connected to the rifle ?

because if it read that when you connected to the rifle first time around, then you might have already over filled the gun

PM sent

[WILBA]

So is there something wrong with asking you to call an item by the correct term ? a PRV is not the same as a bleed screw.

How are people supposed to learn the correct & safe way to do something, if not from reading the correct information, identifying the correct parts, in the first place

The first post says the gauge is registering the cyl pressure which indicates to me that it contains air, granted no figure was given.

Yes I would hope he would notice a leak, but stating the whip pressure dropping means the gauge is at fault is still wrong

OK Wilba
260bar should certainly be enough to unstick the rifle valve, but what concerns me is how do you know ?

did you check that with a blanking plug or did it show that when connected to the rifle ?

because if it read that when you connected to the rifle first time around, then you might have already over filled the gun

It showed that when connected to the rifle and i opened the dive tank valve fully so expect as you stated thats the pressure in the whip. I will try ad you said and open and close the valve quickly as it might be the guns fill valve is sticking. Thanks for the info. I was just hesitant as when the pressure went up to over 200 on the tanks guage and nothing happened it frightened me slightly. Thanks very much to you all for your kind input. Chris

[Phil Russell]

Now I am getting worried.

I am not sure but I think the PH6 does not have a pressure gauge?

If it does not and you have connected the rifle to your air tank and opened the air tank valve fully (260bar on the tank guage) then the rifle may well be charged to 260 bar. This is far too high for a PH6 and will lead to the exhaust valve sticking such that no air is shot out when the trigger is fired.
But: When the tank guage said 260 bar, did you then close the tank valve so that no more air could come out?
Did you then open the bleed valve on the line connecting the tank to the rifle? There should have been a rapid (less than or about a second) but short hiss as the line loses air.
If the hiss continues for a longer time, a few seconds and decreases in sound volume, then it is likely that the inlet valve on the rifle is faulty and all the air in the rifle cylinder is coming out.
Make sure valve on tank is shut. When all air is out of the line, disconnect line from rifle. Will it fire (not loaded)? If it is clearly empty then this confirms a rifle valve issue. If it fires but with a much quieter phut then it is likely there is air in the rifle cylinder at too high a pressure. Keep dry firing to expel more air .. the amount of air being shot out should increase as the air pressure in the cylinder goes down. If the rifle was indeed charged to 260 bar (your tank pressure) then it may take over 60-80 firings to reduce the pressure to a pressure that begins to be normal.

Cheers, Phil

[angrybear]

I agree Phil,
I'm now starting to think it's already been filled to 260bar but I sent WILBA a PM earlier & he's going to dry fire/shoot it down to empty & start again from scratch.