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Thread: Bullpups - Sinclair C5 of the future discuss ?

  1. #16
    keith66 is offline Optimisic Pessimist Fella
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    For those that dont like bull pups another angle. Back in 82 I busted my left arm badly & was off work for 6 months.
    I couldnt shoot my springers very well so with time on my hands sawed up my old sharp innova & bullpupped it. As i am left handed it took quite a while & was not well finished.
    The rear of the stock was sawn off & a pistol grip grafted to the forend, a trigger with spring loaded disconnector rod ran back through the gap between the pump handle & rear stock through a plastic guide tube. Sights were raised M16 style.
    It was stocked with dollops of P38 & sprayed matt black, ugly as sin but it shot well. The great advantage of that rifle was it was small light & compact & could be fired by my right hand from either shoulder.
    So for a disabled or one armed person they offer considerable advantage. It kept me shooting.

  2. #17
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    Im converted to BPs and find they just suit me and my type of shooting, perfectly balanced and super quick to acquire target, longer barrel mean less air used and quieter. I find a rifle now akin to waving a broom around. The only things Im not comfortable doing is prone shooting in the fields but Im to old to be laying around now anyway, and I shoot benchrest with a rifle as its suited to the job, plus its so heavy I couldn’t carry that about anyway, that said a guy has won a few rounds with his pulsar !

    Chris
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  3. #18
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    I own a steyr H5 & Huben k1

    Since grabbing the Huben I’ve not touched the Steyr
    My Steyr is a beautiful machine and handles better than any other I’ve owned, being a scout it is shorter than most but can’t compete for compactness/ruggedness of Huben.
    Last edited by Rativity; 26-06-2022 at 12:46 PM.

  4. #19
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    Tried a P15. Have to say not for me. I much prefer my carbines. There's enough who prefer a BP' so I think they are here to stay.
    Rabbit Stew, no artificial additives except lead.
    IF THE MUD REACHES YOUR KNEES GET OUT OF THE FIELD QUICK.
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  5. #20
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    Having briefly owned an FX Wildcat, I can see some positives with bullpups.
    Namely, a compact length, good shot count and certainly with the Wildcat, excellent handling and balance.

    What I couldn't come to terms with, was the excessive scope height above the barrel (around 70mm with the Wildcat and a 25mm tubed scope, with mounts to give good repeatable head position).
    Yes it can be managed, in terms of holdover / holdunder, but its far from ideal in a hunting situation where often quick shots are required, as in ratting which is why I bought mine. They may well work for some, but I'll never own another bullpup.

    I guess most bullpups will be shot on club ranges, which sorts of negates any of the advantages of them.
    B.A.S.C. member

  6. #21
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    If I bought a bullpup - it sure as hell wouldnt be for paper punching.

    Whilst it doesnt stop iylts use for that - none of the design amd ergonomics were considered as a paper punching solution.

    I would say most would buy a true bullpup primarily as a hunting tool or - maybe - they need a smaller shooting solution because or physical limiting factors like dodgy shoulder or the like
    In a battle of wits I refuse to engage with an unarmed person.
    To one shot one kill, you need to seek the S. Kill only comes from Skill

  7. #22
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    I would say they are different to a "rifle" and should be treat that way.
    A good BP is a very effective tool.
    All the weight is close to you, so the balance is, and your grip needs to be then they balance spot on, like a big pistol.
    Spot on for Rats, close barn work or dense woods.
    I wouldnt buy an air rifle BP as I dont do enough of that type of shooting anymore to warrant owning a good one, I can do all that with a Rapid, the times I do it.
    VAYA CON DIOS

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCPShooter View Post
    I think bullpups look crap and handle weird - nothing an ultra carbine doesn't do better for me (my opinion)

    Will they be worth naff all in a few years - I reckon, yes most likely -

    Discuss (I can't wait)
    You could say the same about the modern springer, I wouldnt but ya could.
    They cost way too much and even the top ones that are close to a grand in cost are out shot by a basic PCP.
    VAYA CON DIOS

  9. #24
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Steyr View Post
    If I bought a bullpup - it sure as hell wouldnt be for paper punching.

    Whilst it doesnt stop iylts use for that - none of the design amd ergonomics were considered as a paper punching solution.

    I would say most would buy a true bullpup primarily as a hunting tool or - maybe - they need a smaller shooting solution because or physical limiting factors like dodgy shoulder or the like
    I would of agreed fully but my best groups paper punching at 50yds have been with a bullpup and a guy shoots a pulsar at our range benchrest comps and does well, Ive a bad back so find using a pup at the bench for hours uncomfortable for me but plenty do. I never thought Id buy a bullpup after years of rifles but simply gelled within a few shots, one thing that definitely improved was my standers.

    Rob mentions scope height but I find this beneficial as it keeps the pup in my shoulder, stops the crooked neck and tightens poi holds up further out, admittedly I only use x1.5 inside and x2.5 outside.

    The only rifle I can see me buying in the future is the Anshutz 9015BR, but I could never carry it about up the farm..

    Shoot, enjoy, repeat whatever you have
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricP View Post
    I used to have this “bullpups are crap” prejudice even though I used to shoot a Steyr AUG armalite in Oman in the eighties, and remember it fondly.
    When I went to air rifles I found lovely highly regarded rifles that I did not get on with and others I did. I shoot well with Walthers and Anschutz, crap with Air Arms, OK with Weihrauch. Just had to find the ones that suited me best.
    Thought I would never use a bullpup again.
    Then I got a Zbroia Kozak for my 60th birthday and again it fitted me. I have two PCPs (the other is a full rifle) and out of the two I like the Zbroia more, and shoot it more. In spite of the opinions voiced on this thread, at the age of 64 I have no pretensions to being Action Man, do not wear Camo in polite society and have not been known to say “Hut, Hut, Hut” even under my breath.
    So to sum up, anyone who says “bullpups are crap” is in the same camp as one who says “rifles are crap” or “pistols are crap” what they are really saying is “I prefer to voice my prejudices rather than check to see whether a gun fits me regardless of the form factor”.
    Bullpups are not a “fad” that will disappear, there are too many, they have been around too long and are too popular.
    All of the above! I was very peasantly surprised when I tried a Zbroia Kozak - all my "prejudices" evaporated very swiftly. A good fit and easy to hold on point of aim. A joy to shoot.

  11. #26
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    I think they're very good.
    I like the weight in the shoulder feel, as opposed to the front heavy feel of a normal rifle (especially a springer).
    I like that they will fit in a rucksack, so can be carried discretely and even carried on a motorcycle.
    And I guess that for me, I look at everything from an engineering point of view. If an airgun can be made short and light (and in the case of PCP it can) then why have one that's long and heavy?
    Since a rifle has to be at least 24" long here that's the smallest we can go, so when bullpup shopping I look for the one that's closest to that.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rancidtom View Post
    If we were allowed full auto airguns then maybe, but why would people need a full auto airgun? Bullpups were designed for close quarter warfare against humans, not rats or squirrels etc. The idea behind the bullpup was based on "spray and pray" while you jump through a doorway shouting the obligatory "Hut! Hut! Hut!" in an American accent....
    The airsoft brigade have them for placcy BB's, which for me tells me all I need to know.
    Not quite, the idea behind a bullpup wasn't spray and pray, it was to allow a longer barrel in a shorter platform resulting in more power from the same cartridge allowing a longer effective range.

  13. #28
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    The airgun market is fuelled by the restrictions of gun ownership in this country. So called 'action man' stigma given to some is a bit unfair. Are car drivers wannabe F1 driver's by driving a car with manufacturers specifications, ie low profile tyres, bigger rims etc ?
    Look at the airgun pistol market. What a plethora of lookalikes!
    Restrictions make any items more desirable. Bullpups in air rifles has yet to be refined to fulfillment, in my view. Development will progress but this cost money. Are shooters willing to pay ? Sell figures will tell.
    Last edited by where's it gone; 01-07-2022 at 10:15 AM.

  14. #29
    JerryD is offline Will only use cherry lipbalm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shed tuner View Post
    100%, but the flipside is a scope 3-4" above the bore really helps flatten out the trajectory (vs sightline) in the 30-40 yard range, so that's a bonus, espcially with a .22 (25-35 yards though)



    Both are .177, 11.5 FP, shooting JSB.
    The red line is the regular rifle, sight 2" above bore. The green line is the bullpup, sight 3.5" above bore.

    The KZ is 0.5", so each of the purple lines are + or - 0.25" - i.e. not enough to worry about.

    Both rilfes are zeroed so the pellet doesn't rise above the 0.25" mark.

    As you can see, the regular rifle has a PBR of 14-36 yards (aim dead on at those ranges, and your pellet will hit within 0.25")
    The bullpup however has a PBR of 21-42 yards - much more useful in an open hunting situation, but crap for close range.

    *note the numbers may not be 100% accurate, but they are close and they illustrate the difference....

    Horses for courses...
    Great summary of the benefits of the higher sightline, but these aren't just bullpup specific: as long as you have a high enough cheekpiece this can be done with any gun and a tall bridge rail. FT shooters use this regularly, as it increases the tolerance on ranging error for longer distances.


    .
    Jerry

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biker_Bob View Post
    I think they're very good.
    I like the weight in the shoulder feel, as opposed to the front heavy feel of a normal rifle (especially a springer).
    I like that they will fit in a rucksack, so can be carried discretely and even carried on a motorcycle.
    And I guess that for me, I look at everything from an engineering point of view. If an airgun can be made short and light (and in the case of PCP it can) then why have one that's long and heavy?
    Since a rifle has to be at least 24" long here that's the smallest we can go, so when bullpup shopping I look for the one that's closest to that.
    Yep. Me too.

    I had my HW100K converted to a bullpup design back in 2007, purely because it made it more comfortable to shoulder and shifted the weight balance backwards which for me is always better. It was my HFT gun and my scores improved greatly after it's reconfiguration. The scope to barrel height did make some close-up shots a bit tricky but with practice and holdover knowledge I was able to overcome that. Although I sold it when I stopped doing HFT a few years back, it remains the most comfortable air rifle I've ever used (and I've owned dozens and dozens).
    "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son" Dean Wormer.

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