What to do with most of a Webley mk3 supertarget...

[DCL_dave]

Hi guys,

I was fortunate enough to be given a Webley MK3 supertarget... down side is that it has had a barrel chop and some other mods at some stage in it's life...what to do with it though?...is it worth saving as is?...The barrel chop is a nightmare as it has had the last 3 inches or so chopped and it doesn't look that square to me (difficult to square it off the tapered outer section of barrel)...it has had a scope ramp attached to the top of the comp tube (lifting slightly) and the stock has had an adjustable butt plate fitted (no end of this old girl was left unbuggered, as it were...) it still has its PH 17b diopter with a PH60 6 hole iris just missing one mounting screw (I think that is what the sight is???)

is it worth saving? what does the BBS collector section think?...don't think she is very collectable anymore?

pics...

https://ibb.co/VYX8fS1
https://ibb.co/L9pJMGV
https://ibb.co/BLk1swG
https://ibb.co/YB25m99
https://ibb.co/M8jCJ3S

[--ped--]

if it shoots straight it's worth saving
i must admit i was given an early mk3 in .177 and it cost me a fair bit to buy the original parts it was missing,it does shoot rather well though now even though the metal work and stock want a refurb
if you do decide not to save it i'd be interested in the diopter

[Unframed Dave]

I've a soft spot for the supertarget, I was shooting one tonight. There must be a donor barrel out there. Not much you can do about the ramp.

Worth saving in my view.

Dave

[MDriskill]

True, not much collector value left. But if it shoots straight, I'd definitely keep it and enjoy shooting it. If the scope rail is straight there's your sight issue solved. 🙂

The sight is indeed a PH 17B. Does the gadget under the grip still have front sight inserts in it?

[crowbar]

If you turn a bit of bar to like a top hat that fits in the barrel and the flange sits on the crown ,you can then blue top
hat face spin it on crown and file the high spot down till the whole crown blues.

[coburn]

Break it for spares on the internet and buy a HW55.
That way you'll know what a proper recoiling target rifle shoots like

[Troubledshooter]

In my opinion you would be better off selling the PH17b aperture sight, and if the sight element box still contains some elements, sell that as well, as you can no longer fit the PHFS22 foresight.
It is certainly no longer collectable but might make a reasonable plinker.

[trajectory]

What a blooming shame.

If it was mine....I'd shoot it a bit to see what the accuracy was like. If it was good than I'd have a think about leaving the barrel as it is, but as its not square that would nighle me knowing it was like that. So I'd square it off, re crown & shoot it to test the accuracy & re work it till it was at least as good as it was before I re crowned it. Then I'd wonder about the length of the barrel..... Might be tempted to temporarily fit something to mimick the height of a Ph front sight( can't easily use the real thing as the dovetail lifts it higher if not inletted) & see if there was enough sight adjustment on the rear to sight it in over the range I wanted to shoot it at. If there was, then I'd dovetail the barrel & fit a FS 22 or similar. If it shot well i could forget about the short barrel. i suppose a sleeve could be fitted but i dont think I woud, nor fit an oversized bored out extension to look like the original barrel or even a slip on silencer, but it could be done. I'd leave the butt plate, I think, oil the stock & leave it at that if it shot well. Wouldn't fiddle with the sight ramp unless it was hanging off but I'd ditch the telescopic sight. Don't think I'd worry about changing the whole barrel assembly, most that come up ar .22 but maybe if a cheap one came up I would but the idea of a .177 appeals a bit more to me.
There's hours of fun for a fiddler in something like this, just depends on what you want, & what you feel like doing yourself. It might eat up a bit of time but if it's the sort of thing you like doing i think its time we'll spent.

[T 20]

I'd strip it and chuck it up in the lathe and recrown it, and while it's chucked up I'd machine the last couple of inches of the barrel to be parallel so a barrel weight could be easily fitted.
A tunnel foresight could then be easily fitted to the barrel weight rather than trying to machine dovetails into the barrel.

I'd just plug weld the scope rail back on and live with it, I spot welded the scope rail back onto one of mine but I had to spend a few hours altering the spot welder arm to fit into the compression tube.





All the best Mick

[DCL_dave]

Thanks for the words of wisdom, guys, much appreciated

Moot point, so just out of curiosity, how much has she been chopped?...the barrel is 405mm long from crown to the front edge of the tap hole, and the stock is 34mm from the edge of the Webley disc to where it has been cut to fit the adjustable pad.

pics
https://ibb.co/bsjt5N5
https://ibb.co/MPvT4qr

re. breaking for spares...nah, seems a bit rude and ungrateful seeing as I was given it...might consider swapping the PH rearsight and element box for a decent lightweight period optic though, a 4x28 Tiara perhaps?...are the small 4x15, 4x20 Webley branded scopes of the period any good?

re. PH element box, there is one foresight element in there, a clear plastic disc with small black ring in the centre, but it looks a bit mullered and I'm not sure it is original...probably not much use?

Good news is that the piston seal and tap seal are good and do hold air (cocked with closed tap, uncocked with open tap and the piston bounces on cushion of air), it is very stiff to cock though, not sure if that is because of the short cocking arm and/or too much spring in there?...

Re. recrowning, the only lathe that I have use of these days is my old Relmac treadle lathe...it won't fit through the headstock so would need some creative thinking to achieve...I like Crowbars idea though...

[MDriskill]

I have a Supertarget of similar vintage. Front of tap hole to muzzle is 475 mm. FWIW, it's 405 mm to the rear of the front sight ramp. The butt's face is slightly curved. It's 36 mm from the back edge of the medallion to the closest point of the wood's rear face.

Just me...I'd hang on to that PH 17B, you might stumble on another Mk 3 that needs it! And not just a Supertarget, it will interchange with the PH 16M that was optional for Mk 3 sporters. Both mount with the same screws in the same location.

Supertargets with PH sights were supplied with a set of metal inserts in the DB1 "disc box."

[T 20]

Re. recrowning, the only lathe that I have use of these days is my old Relmac treadle lathe...it won't fit through the headstock so would need some creative thinking to achieve...I like Crowbars idea though...

Ah --- if you have a lathe, machine a short tube that fits tightly on the muzzle so that when it's fitted it leaves a couple of thou" of muzzle exposed.
File the muzzle until it's square with the end of the tube, then with a round head screw mounted in a drill with a little cutting paste on the head you can debure the lands of the rifling giving a square crown.

This is a variation on the method described by Hancock and Pope (Venom) in Airgunworld who described using a jubilee clip or a sling clamp instead of a tube as a filing guide.

I use an A series mini pushrods instead of a screw and I glue sand paper to it instead of using cutting paste.





All the best Mick