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Thread: Scope zero at 35yds.

  1. #1
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    Scope zero at 35yds.

    I have been trying to Zero my scope and find I cant get the vertical position is bang on where I want it but the horizontal is just off a very small amount. 1 click to the right is just a tad to much. Can you fit a shim to the side of a scope. Or am I beeter putting a shim on the side of the scope rail.

    Using a Daystate Wolverine r in 177 with a Element Optics HELIX 6-24 x 50 side focus scope with 1/4 Mildot. Trying to Zero 35yds.

    Just not 100% dead centre.

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    Compensate your aim point. In general terms I've had this scenario happen a few times. 1 click too much either way so I just slightly aim off a little. That's OK if you shoot at a fixed range if not set it at the furthest range you shoot at. Are your mounts central ? Mount with screws to the left on one mount to the right on the other, pushed together run your fingers through the middle on the side, if they are offset to each other your mounts are not central & you need a different set of mounts.
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    Assuming your scope has 1/4 MOA clicks, and unless my maths is wrong, at 33 1/3 yards one click will move the POI 2.1mm. So if you're 2.1mm off on the horizontal, one click would bring it bang on. So you must only be 1mm off, and one click moves it 1mm in the other direction? So you're shooting a group that you can tell is 1mm off to one side, or have I misunderstood?

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    Scope zero at 35yds.

    Never used such a big scope myself but just re-zero'd 2 of my rifles to that range & i was having to adjust at least 4 or 5 clicks to move the poa a cm or so, are you using it on full mag? maybe some parrelax error affecting the poa?

  5. #5
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    Scope click

    I believe that one horizontal scope click, (1/4 click), would move the pellet strike exactly 1/2 of a .177" pellet width at 35 yards. Are you saying that this is too much movement?

    One click of a 1/4 MOA scope at 35 yards = 2.33 mm if I did not make a math mistake. .177" pellet = 4.5 mm.

    Correction: in that 1/4 click should be 1/4 MOA per turret click.
    One click at 100 yards on a ¼ MOA click scope = .2618”
    One click at 35 yards = .091630” or 2.33 mm
    One MOA at 100 yards = 1.0471975”
    Last edited by Travis299; 22-09-2022 at 09:09 PM.

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    Apologies, you're right, 2.327mm (mind you I said 33 1/3 yards, which should have been 2.22mm). But I am splitting hairs. By the way Travis, by (1/4 click) I think you meant (1/4 MOA) ?
    Last edited by bill57; 22-09-2022 at 09:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bill57 View Post
    Assuming your scope has 1/4 MOA clicks, and unless my maths is wrong, at 33 1/3 yards one click will move the POI 2.1mm. So if you're 2.1mm off on the horizontal, one click would bring it bang on. So you must only be 1mm off, and one click moves it 1mm in the other direction? So you're shooting a group that you can tell is 1mm off to one side, or have I misunderstood?
    You are right.

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    Always wondered what I'd do if this dilemma presented itself. Guessing a shim would prove too crude an adjustment? Unless remarkably thin? . So, maybe? And, if the shim were to be that fine, also little to no risk of damaging anything, so maybe worth a go? Wonder if a thin paper one would do the job, on one side of the scope at the rear mount? Just thinking out aloud....... If not, maybe as Bellycrawler suggests......

    Edit.....just thinking out aloud even more, maybe a cigarette paper shim?

    Edit, edit......just trying to think of a shim material that would be ultra thin yet not likely to degrade........
    Last edited by TonyL; 23-09-2022 at 06:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyL View Post
    Always wondered what I'd do if this dilemma presented itself. Guessing a shim would prove too crude an adjustment? Unless remarkably thin? . So, maybe? And, if the shim were to be that fine, also little to no risk of damaging anything, so maybe worth a go? Wonder if a thin paper one would do the job, on one side of the scope at the rear mount? Just thinking out aloud....... If not, maybe as Bellycrawler suggests......

    Edit.....just thinking out aloud even more, maybe a cigarette paper shim?

    Edit, edit......just trying to think of a shim material that would be ultra thin yet not likely to degrade........
    A shim wouldn't need to be super thin. Just of a thicknes whereby it nudges the POI a small random distance. Then the turrets would compensate for the thicknes. It is unlikely the thicknes of the shim will shift the POI an exact multiple of clicks it willl be most likely be between clicks - so you will get a new range of clicks.

    My shooting is so good that I always use multiple clicks on the turrets when zeroing. Just get it somewhere near is good enough for my standard.
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    I'd wind the scope like 30 clicks left, 60 clicks right, 30 click back left. Same with the elevation (up down, obviously).
    Then try and fine tune the zero again. Quite likely this will cause a microscopic change in where the zero settles, which is all you are looking for.

    Otherwise just loosen the mount clamps, and re-tighten (making no conscious changes). Same thing - you'll get a microscopic change.

    In reality, I never been able to shoot good enough for me to notice 1 click, unless my scope was jumping around a bit (i.e. not true 1/4" at 100 yards), but if you are benching with a quality setup, I guess it's entirely possible.

    Shimming is a waste of time, don't even think about it. All the other changes you are introducing will be more than enough on their own.

    I'd also be very suspicous of other factors at play here, e.g paralax error, or cant. When shooting your "fine tuning" group, make a point of de-resting your rifle, and re-composing your shooting position (as you would between groups) - between each pellet shot. that will show up any hold / paralax / eye positioning / cant issues.

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  11. #11
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    I would shim the scope mount on the dovetail.
    Assuming your turrets are about middle position, I would place a small piece of yoghurt pot on the non clamping side of the mount and try to zero again.
    It does sound like your clicks are very coarse.
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  12. #12
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    Unless there is a specific reason why 35 yards, I would move the zero either closer or further away.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonynw1 View Post
    I have been trying to Zero my scope and find I cant get the vertical position is bang on where I want it but the horizontal is just off a very small amount. 1 click to the right is just a tad to much. Can you fit a shim to the side of a scope. Or am I beeter putting a shim on the side of the scope rail.

    Using a Daystate Wolverine r in 177 with a Element Optics HELIX 6-24 x 50 side focus scope with 1/4 Mildot. Trying to Zero 35yds.

    Just not 100% dead centre.
    First question is what shape aim point do you use? If you're worried about mm accuracy you need to be using a thin cross as an aim point mounted exactly to the vertical & horizontal with a sprit level,
    that way you can set the reticle cross EXACTLY over the aim cross, which is the only way to know you have the exact same aim point for each shot.

    Next thing I would do is check for crossover by shooting at 35-30-25-20-15yds, if the POI moves L/R then the scope is not central along & parallel to, the bore,
    That would most likely be the mounts, especially if using the type fixed at one side with a loose clamp on the other side, use a set that split vertically & self-centre.

    What baffles me with the element helix is they seem to claim 1 click is both 1/4moa and 1/10mrad which is simply not possible

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shed tuner View Post
    I'd wind the scope like 30 clicks left, 60 clicks right, 30 click back left. Same with the elevation (up down, obviously).
    Then try and fine tune the zero again. Quite likely this will cause a microscopic change in where the zero settles, which is all you are looking for.

    Otherwise just loosen the mount clamps, and re-tighten (making no conscious changes). Same thing - you'll get a microscopic change.

    In reality, I never been able to shoot good enough for me to notice 1 click, unless my scope was jumping around a bit (i.e. not true 1/4" at 100 yards), but if you are benching with a quality setup, I guess it's entirely possible.

    Shimming is a waste of time, don't even think about it. All the other changes you are introducing will be more than enough on their own.

    I'd also be very suspicous of other factors at play here, e.g paralax error, or cant. When shooting your "fine tuning" group, make a point of de-resting your rifle, and re-composing your shooting position (as you would between groups) - between each pellet shot. that will show up any hold / paralax / eye positioning / cant issues.

    HTH - JB
    Good thinking, JB.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrybear View Post
    First question is what shape aim point do you use? If you're worried about mm accuracy you need to be using a thin cross as an aim point mounted exactly to the vertical & horizontal with a sprit level,
    that way you can set the reticle cross EXACTLY over the aim cross, which is the only way to know you have the exact same aim point for each shot.

    Next thing I would do is check for crossover by shooting at 35-30-25-20-15yds, if the POI moves L/R then the scope is not central along & parallel to, the bore,
    That would most likely be the mounts, especially if using the type fixed at one side with a loose clamp on the other side, use a set that split vertically & self-centre.

    What baffles me with the element helix is they seem to claim 1 click is both 1/4moa and 1/10mrad which is simply not possible
    More good and valid points and well put across.
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