Why are Webley pistols so special?

[Jerry Cornelius]

Much as I like the haenel 28, and the repeating version is ahead of it’s time, there’s a reason that cocking mechanism never caught on. It’s looks over functionality

Now, a hyscore but made to haenel standards and materials, and you might be talking.

[trajectory]

The Haenel 28, either single shot or with the repeating mechanism in my view are nice looking pistols, with cleaner lines than the Webley series. The Haenels are well made too but I do not find them anywhere as easy to cock as a Webley, even the mk1 with the single cocking link is easier for me. I wouldn't seriously contemplate firing my Haenel 28 any more than half a dozen times in fairly quick succession, it's just too hard & uncomfortable with any technique. The leverage just isn't there to cock it easily & comfortably. It may be innovative but in some regards I do not think that it is an efficient design. Now, I am not saying the Webley pistols are perfect but for me their combination of plus points & negatives outweigh those of the Haenel. I just find the Webley the more useable of the two, if I didnt then I'd shoot the Hanel more frequently than the Webley; but I don't.

[ptdunk]

A bit too much of a English love fest? Haenel’s did quite well in the US, I see a lot of them come up for sale. Though I truly appreciate the Webley design (I have quite a few of them), Hugo in his brilliance gave us a Luger style pistol that has a 20 shot concentric magazine, that works flawlessly. Machined and finished as well as any pistol. No improvements needed?

Possibly the most awkward cocking method of any air pistol I’ve ever shot.

Sorry!
Matt

[Garvin]

Brilliant though the Haenel 28 design is, IMO Webley pips it not because it is better looking - it isn't - but because it came first and because it lasted in so many iterations over generations. That is design brilliance proven over almost a century. Not much else in the world of manufactured goods has stayed more or less the same for so long, apart from the materials used, tweaks etc.

Yes, there were things that could have been better about the early pistols, and some of them were ironed out over the decades. But don't forget that there were a series of compromises and balances made - including looks, ease of user maintenance, ease of use by people of different age/size/gender etc, cost of manufacturing, durability, and so on.

[45flint]

Possibly the most awkward cocking method of any air pistol I’ve ever shot.

Sorry!
Matt

Don’t disagree but the price you pay for the elegant look and feel of a Luger. I actually don’t find it that much more awkward if you use the right technique? It becomes a quick snap rather than a long Webley pull. The lower power of the Haenel helps here. Its way to easy for the Webley faction to discount the repeating mechanism? That trumps a lot of cocking effort with the shear brilliance and machining behind that mechanism. I don’t think I would put up a regular Haenel 28 against my Webley Straight Grip Senior, but a repeater gives it a run for its money? In a dual I would get 5 shots to your one?

https://youtu.be/BEt7aj2o30k

[ccdjg]

Its way to easy for the Webley faction to discount the repeating mechanism? That trumps a lot of cocking effort with the shear brilliance and machining behind that mechanism.

https://youtu.be/BEt7aj2o30k

I don't think anyone would discount the ingenuity and machining behind the repeater mechanism of the Haenel 28R, but it does have its limitations. Specifically the magazine sacrifices a lot of swept volume; if a jam occurs, it can be a major exercise to clear; and if something does go wrong with the repeater mechanism (most commonly a lost magazine tube), the gun cannot be used in single shot mode.

The EM-GE Zenit M repeater mechanism is equally ingenious in my opinion, and suffers none of these limitations. Unfortunately EM-GE chose to make their magazine unit out of inferior zinc alloy, so it was easily fractured if you did get pellet jam. Consequently the capability to still use the pistol when the magazine was knackered proved a boon - not something they made a point of claiming as a positive feature in their advertising literature. Swings and roundabouts I suppose.

I have to admit though, that the 28R is a much prettier gun, and if I could only own one, that would be it.

[ggggr]

I do quite like the Webley pistols, and have thought about them quite a bit in quiet moments. When people were doing bits for the "Frankenpistol" , which was my idea of an East European copy of a Webley, using an all steel Premier frame, it made me realise how good and well thought out the Webleys are.
Ideally the cocking links should be a bit thicker and the pins a size up, BUT when you sit and look at an Old Webley you realise how difficult it would be to change things. If you had a thicker cocking link, it would touch the underside of the barrel, so the barrel would have to be raised by using a slightly higher barrel pivot. This would then raise the foresight, which would mean the rearsight would have to be raised.
I think the Webleys were meant to be "pocket pistols" and I have a feeling thats why the longer barrel of the very early models was replaced by the shorter barrel.
I think the "pocket pistol" thing accounted for the Hurricane being cut down to make the Tempest.

When you look at the Copies of Webleys, they tend to have a wooden frame and a through bolt securing the frame/ grips to the cylinder.

I think Webleys pass my "good pistol test" ie --it would be possible to club someone to death with one and still plink with it afterwards


I think it is a pity that they never made the Mk1 in a frame like the Junior. That would be a good looking pistol.

[laverdabru]

A bit too much of a English (British, surely?) love fest? HaenelÂ’s did quite well in the US, I see a lot of them come up for sale. Though I truly appreciate the Webley design (I have quite a few of them), ]

Hmmm. Guess it's just this side of the pond Webleys were more obtainable/commonplace than Haenels. When I was a youngster (1960's & '70's) the only pistols I can remember seeing were Webleys, the BSA Scorpion, Milbro Dianas & the occasional Original. Oh, & the Gat, of course.

ATB

Bru

[45flint]

I don't think anyone would discount the ingenuity and machining behind the repeater mechanism of the Haenel 28R, but it does have its limitations. Specifically the magazine sacrifices a lot of swept volume; if a jam occurs, it can be a major exercise to clear; and if something does go wrong with the repeater mechanism (most commonly a lost magazine tube), the gun cannot be used in single shot mode.

The EM-GE Zenit M repeater mechanism is equally ingenious in my opinion, and suffers none of these limitations. Unfortunately EM-GE chose to make their magazine unit out of inferior zinc alloy, so it was easily fractured if you did get pellet jam. Consequently the capability to still use the pistol when the magazine was knackered proved a boon - not something they made a point of claiming as a positive feature in their advertising literature. Swings and roundabouts I suppose.

I have to admit though, that the 28R is a much prettier gun, and if I could only own one, that would be it.

Appreciate your thoughts. One thing that potential collectors might appreciate is that to me a Haenel 28R should be bought in .177 cal. I found that cheap Crosman wadcutters work flawlessly. The length being perfect by shear luck. I haven’t found a 22 cal pellet that will work well with my 22 and I have tried a lot!

[Jerry Cornelius]

Appreciate your thoughts. One thing that potential collectors might appreciate is that to me a Haenel 28R should be bought in .177 cal. I found that cheap Crosman wadcutters work flawlessly. The length being perfect by shear luck. I haven’t found a 22 cal pellet that will work well with my 22 and I have tried a lot!

Oh to have the dilemma of that choice !

[45flint]

Oh to have the dilemma of that choice !

It does seem that the US was a major importer of Haenel pistols. Since the majority were bought during the Depression, they were cheaper than the Webley in my Stoeger catalog. At that time I’m sure noone really looked at performance but the sleek Luger look would nail it for many over here. I have a magazine ad that was just for the 28R, no other pistol.

[Evostu]

BecIse it's made in Britain,shame they sold out