Bsa sight frozen solid

[trajectory]

What a pain.

BSA improved model with a nice rear sight with a wheel that wont turn...?..

Removed the sight block from the barrel, popped it in to soak overnight, fiddly little off centre wheel is difficult to get much purchase on it but I couldn't shift it. Couple more days of soaking, percussed it with brass drift ( that's percussed but precussed might be appropriate too). Still no joy, into an ultrasonic bath. Nope. Heat, quench, nope, heat & drop in dismantling fluid. Nope more heat.......still no go.

Writing this for two reasons, a) any suggestions b) stop me doing something too rash.

I dont think I'm the first to have a go at this as ther is a bit of metal thats been raised on one edge of the wheel & a bit of a mark on the other.
Theres no damage on the blade or ears of the sight block so it's not been dropped or clouted as far as I can tell but it's a darned close fit. It's an area I percussed lightly to try & rattle it a bit with a brass drift shaped to the blades thickness minus a bit.

Just wondering about grinding a piece of saw blade to a very fine wedge & seeing if i can splay the slot the blade runs in, just a smidge in case the mating face of blade & block are locked together. Then close the ears of the block afterwards once it's all in bits. Sound a bit drastic but what do you reckon?

Really dont want to mess it up. Had one a bit like it before but it eventually freed up but this ones showing no sign of willingness to co operate.

Beginning to think it might be time to just put up with it but its niggling me.

[mrto]

Have you considered soaking it in vinegar it does a wonderful job of cleaning rusty components.

[silva]

You have probably already tried it, but sometimes attemping to very slightly tighten it can free it. Heat and diesel might loosen the crud and unseize it. Is it the first pattern sight with the smaller wheel ?

[trajectory]

You have probably already tried it, but sometimes attemping to very slightly tighten it can free it. Heat and diesel might loosen the crud and unseize it. Is it the first pattern sight with the smaller wheel ?

Hi, I did try tightening it a little but I'm afraid there was no sign of it moving rocking between tightening & loosening but a soaking in vinegar sounds worth a go. By the way ever tried molasses solution as a rust remover/ converter? It's pretty good.

I think its the small wheel type. Looking from above the sight blade does not go through the centre point of the adjusting wheel ie the sight blade isn't on the diameter.

[edbear2]

How much heat are we talking?...red hot or hot air out of interest?

Two products you could try are Aerokroil oil, or Dye penetrant as used in checking metal for cracks, both go in like nothing else, even derv.

I can normally shift anything by welding, or point heat with Oxy/Acy, that's the temp needed sometimes.

Or it may have been cross threaded and bodged in, but still should shift.

I had one similar, used good quality (vise grips brand) small locking pliers at the end to get it rocking, and then a needle file to re-do the knurl around the outside I ruined.

The head of the elevation screw should move a tad even if the side parts of the insert are frozen unless all jammed in the lowest position.

ATB, Ed

[trajectory]

How much heat are we talking?...red hot or hot air out of interest?

Two products you could try are Aerokroil oil, or Dye penetrant as used in checking metal for cracks, both go in like nothing else, even derv.

I can normally shift anything by welding, or point heat with Oxy/Acy, that's the temp needed sometimes.

Or it may have been cross threaded and bodged in, but still should shift.

I had one similar, used good quality (vise grips brand) small locking pliers at the end to get it rocking, and then a needle file to re-do the knurl around the outside I ruined.

The head of the elevation screw should move a tad even if the side parts of the insert are frozen unless all jammed in the lowest position.

ATB, Ed

No oxy gear, so I've been using a propane torch, pretty warm but not as hot as oxy. But that's given me an idea : carbon arc pencils.... What do you reckon?

I've not heard of Aerokroil but sounds worth a go. Come across penetrant dye but never had occasion to use it, but once again a good idea. For soaking I've tried diesel & good old Slaks, the one that smells of germolene ointment, usually pretty good but reckon it needs a bit more heat. It seems to be in there square so I'm hoping it's threads haven't been messed up.

Why is it that the 'easy little jobs' turn out to be nether?

Thanks for your ideas.

[edbear2]

No oxy gear, so I've been using a propane torch, pretty warm but not as hot as oxy. But that's given me an idea : carbon arc pencils.... What do you reckon?

I've not heard of Aerokroil but sounds worth a go. Come across penetrant dye but never had occasion to use it, but once again a good idea. For soaking I've tried diesel & good old Slaks, the one that smells of germolene ointment, usually pretty good but reckon it needs a bit more heat. It seems to be in there square so I'm hoping it's threads haven't been messed up.

Why is it that the 'easy little jobs' turn out to be nether?

Thanks for your ideas.

I would not use any electric source of heat like carbon arc personally, as the thread is very fine as you don't want the risk of a flash over to earth, no matter how small further adding to your problems.

I only mentioned Oxy / Acy due to the control / fine flame if a small tip is used, propane can still heat small parts as hot as you need to go.

Propane with a small tip and try to get in there quickly with the flame cone so the wheel glows dull red, or to avoid risk to the element put the whole shebang on a gas ring and heat from the base so again it just starts goes red, remove, wait a couple of seconds for the colour to go away then quench / drench in kroil or even WD, it will flare up obviously, but the capillary action on cooling is the thing you need.

You obviously have got to the point where rebluing / refinishing is needed

Then try to move the wheel, rinse and repeat, I have spent 2 hours or more on a single screw / bolt thread doing this before it showed any sign, so don't give up hope!

(The record was 5 + weeks of doing it on an Irreplaceable Al casting that had several fasteners in, that had stood in the weather for 45 - 50 years, every morning on arriving and then a few times during the day when I had a spare moment).

ATB, ED

[trajectory]

I would not use any electric source of heat like carbon arc personally, as the thread is very fine as you don't want the risk of a flash over to earth, no matter how small further adding to your problems.

I only mentioned Oxy / Acy due to the control / fine flame if a small tip is used, propane can still heat small parts as hot as you need to go.

Propane with a small tip and try to get in there quickly with the flame cone so the wheel glows dull red, or to avoid risk to the element put the whole shebang on a gas ring and heat from the base so again it just starts goes red, remove, wait a couple of seconds for the colour to go away then quench / drench in kroil or even WD, it will flare up obviously, but the capillary action on cooling is the thing you need.

You obviously have got to the point where rebluing / refinishing is needed

Then try to move the wheel, rinse and repeat, I have spent 2 hours or more on a single screw / bolt thread doing this before it showed any sign, so don't give up hope!

(The record was 5 + weeks of doing it on an Irreplaceable Al casting that had several fasteners in, that had stood in the weather for 45 - 50 years, every morning on arriving and then a few times during the day when I had a spare moment).

ATB, ED

Morning, thank you, that's a very good point about electric arc & grounding components. I dont really want to be the first to accidentally make a solid one piece rear sight. I think it was the thought it hadn't budged so far that encouraged me to think it needed more heat than I've tried already when perhaps repetition/cycling of reasonable heat + quenching + patience + hope is what's needed.
Funnily enough it doesn't look too bad at the moment, it's got that hot oiled blueing look to it. At least it's not frazzled or chewed up & if it wont go back on in a working condition I'll pop on the one I made from scratch while the blighter was in soaking for a few days. It looks fair to me but I deliberately made the base a bit higher wider & generally a little beefier so although it looked reasonable there would be no doubting it wasn't original.

Hoping this one doesn't take 5 weeks but you are right, just going at if steadily & methodically often pays in the long run, doesn't have to be done in one go either,

Cheers for the advice & encouragement

[micky2]

Hi like Ed said, try locking pliers, l had one the same, the pliers worked for me.

[ggggr]

A couple of things you could try. Is the wheel actually touching the blade? Sometimes with the sights, the gap where the wheel goes is a bit bigger than the head of the wheel, and if it is, you can very gently tap the blade to get a fraction of space to turn the wheel. As has already been mentioned, usually you tighten before trying to undo and sometimes the gap gives you a chanceof a tiny bit of movement.

Another thing to try is putting the thing in the freezer for a bit. I know this seems odd, but when I was trying to unscrew the "Do not remove" end plug from a Webley Premier body (for the Frankenpistol) , I could get more movement by putting the body in the freezer than heating it up.

[trajectory]

micky2 & ggggr thanks for your input. There's no wiggle room between the sight blade & adjuster. It looks as if the adjuster is fully wound down as the threaded portion is only a smidgin away from being flush with the base of the sight. So maximum surface contact in all areas. Well it had to be didn't it. Locking pliers were a good invention & have been using them since the off, wish I had some cardice, then with alcohol i could shock it down to around -70C, might do something to help break the lock. As it is a few more heat & quench cycles then freezer it is.

[4ndy]

I had the same issue a while ago and I messaged someone. whilst waiting for a reply I managed to sort it myself but this is what he sent me. Talking to an old timer at the club about it and he said its very good advice.

This is what he said.... copied and pasted below

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Sorry for delay in answering but I have been a bit quiet on the forum recently. What is the serial number of the rifle please?

If that close up of a rusty sight is yours, it looks like it could be saved.

First, throw any wd40 you have in the bin and knock the sight out of it's dovetail. Get about 100cc of diesel fuel, a saucepan and a couple of pints of water and an empty baked bean tin. put the sight in the tin and pour the diesel in, then stand the tin in the water and boil it up for 30 minutes or so. take the tin out of the water and let it cool. Repeat this process daily for a couple of days and then try to undo the screw.

Cheers Fred

[trajectory]

I had the same issue a while ago and I messaged someone. whilst waiting for a reply I managed to sort it myself but this is what he sent me. Talking to an old timer at the club about it and he said its very good advice.

This is what he said.... copied and pasted below

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry for delay in answering but I have been a bit quiet on the forum recently. What is the serial number of the rifle please?

If that close up of a rusty sight is yours, it looks like it could be saved.

First, throw any wd40 you have in the bin and knock the sight out of it's dovetail. Get about 100cc of diesel fuel, a saucepan and a couple of pints of water and an empty baked bean tin. put the sight in the tin and pour the diesel in, then stand the tin in the water and boil it up for 30 minutes or so. take the tin out of the water and let it cool. Repeat this process daily for a couple of days and then try to undo the screw.

Cheers Fred

Diesel in a 'ban Marie'...... Well diesel soaking is good, heats good, so I guess it figures hot diesel might be better.

Thanks for that, quite like the idea, nothing ventured nothing gained.

Over the years I've encountered a few stubborn bolts etc that didn't want to shift but this one beats them all. The limited area to get a hold of makes it harder to do plus it's overall small size & relative fragility just compound things.

[4ndy]

I know I will be trying it next time .....

Good luck and please let us all know if you do try it how it goes.

[trajectory]

I know I will be trying it next time .....

Good luck and please let us all know if you do try it how it goes.

I'll be happy to post an update of progress & what or what combination of methods worked or not...


Old adage someone told me........ try HOPE

Heat

Oil

Patience

Effort

Seems like good advice