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Thread: What ft/lb would be considered safely legal to set a springer?

  1. #16
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    OOOhhh - pages of opinions

    Generally speaking I test my springers with a light - AA Express, a medium - JSB Exact, and a heavy pellet - JSB Heavies. Invariably it's the lighter pellet which produces most power in a springer, typically the opposite of a PCP incidentally, so I use AA Express to set them up for power.

    That being said, I'm not looking for mid 11s like I would be in a PCP, springers usually shoot more accurately and feel nicer with less recoil, so high 10s, low 11s are where I want to be depending on the gun, it's a balance of feel and power, not just power on it's own
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anothermiss View Post
    Nope. If a pellet is readily available to the shooter, they can test with it.itvavoids the simple workaround of a rifle running (random number, here..) 18ftlb with jsb.
    Imagine the shooter knew this and had a pocket full of intentionally oversized slugs for the bore, meaning rifle could only achieve 10ftlb with them. Shooter sees cop coming, slings jsb in a stream. Then says "I only shoot these, officer" presenting the slow, oversized slugs.
    Some people just can't conform. Me and my uncle had this discussion recently where he's said "20ftlb should be allowed for hunting" which is a fair argument. I pointed out if that was allowed, people would only want 21ftlb and would run their rifles as close to the higher limit as possible.
    I think its a human condition. Folk seem to be obsessed with more is better, in all aspects of life.
    You use that scenario for lots of things, like a shotgun shooting bullets or a variable PCP by simply turning it down. Like I said "I don't know the law well enough" but describing factual experience and not some scenario. Maybe someone on here has actually had legal rifle confiscated and tested to be FAC, and wouldn't mind commenting.
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    10 to 10.5 is probably best.

    IF you get tested, and It's over 12ft lbs "LEGALLY" you are in possession of a modified firearm without authority which carries an 8-year prison sentence.

    "LEGALLY" IF you were in possession of a rimfire or centrefire rifle, you are in possession of a firearm without authority which carries an 5-year prison sentence.

    Very stupid considering the differences, BUT that is the law, and if there was some sort of political or usual anti gun campain / er at the time that's what YOU could get!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gsxrman View Post
    You use that scenario for lots of things, like a shotgun shooting bullets or a variable PCP by simply turning it down. Like I said "I don't know the law well enough" but describing factual experience and not some scenario. Maybe someone on here has actually had legal rifle confiscated and tested to be FAC, and wouldn't mind commenting.
    That's why the law covers readily adjustable in relation to air rifles (sub 12)

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    I get all of that, but if my rifles are set below the limit with my chosen ammo and its tested it is legal. If someone alters the set up, changes the ammo, alters the power adjuster etc then they have made the set up illegal surely. Surely the law doesn't say "air rifle with potential to be FAC", otherwise everything is illegal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsxrman View Post
    I get all of that, but if my rifles are set below the limit with my chosen ammo and its tested it is legal. If someone alters the set up, changes the ammo, alters the power adjuster etc then they have made the set up illegal surely. Surely the law doesn't say "air rifle with potential to be FAC", otherwise everything is illegal.
    I get what you're saying but the swapping of ammo isn't adjusting the firearm in any way. It's the firearm that causes the issue, not the ammo.

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    my 95 is set at 11.6 with air arms fields

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    Quote Originally Posted by rapidresponse1 View Post
    my 95 is set at 11.6 with air arms fields
    Exactly so is that rifle illegal, as it is only 0.41 off being FAC. A change of pellet could do that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsxrman View Post
    I can only speak from experience. If your rifle was deemed over the limit then you were not allowed to shoot FT/HFT courses. Mine was pretty much 11.8 with 7.9 Premiers.
    My rifles were tested several times, at big events too, and was always allowed to shoot. With my power level and chosen pellet I was within the law. I don't know the law well enough but if a rifle with varying power levels or an adjuster, which there are several and you set the power for your chosen pellet within the 12ftlb limit you are surely legal. If an officer of the law takes your rifle to test it and uses different ammo, surely that is him altering the pretence and committing the "crime" and not you. Surely.
    Shotguns are designed to shoot "shot" which is what most do and at either game or clays. A cartridge can be easily adapted to shoot a bullet or other projectile. Again most people don't, but the potential is there to do so, so is every basic shotgun illegal?
    Unfortunately not so, that's like saying as a scope cannot be adjusted during an HFT round "surely anyone with an adjustable scope must be banned from HFT because they "could" adjust it"

    It's my understanding that if an airgun has a finger adjuster, it may be turned to 'max' for the test, however if a tool is required to change the adjustment, it must be tested "as found"

    As previously stated any 'across the counter' pellet can be used, & the test should be repeated with both a light, medium & heavy pellet.

    Of course none of this is helped by the fact that actually "there is no standardised test" , so the best anyone can do is to take the most severe case in point & assume that is what would apply.

    As for the shotgun;
    The law actually states what is classed as a "shotgun cartridge" that does not require a FAC, as "containing 5 or more shot not exceeding .36","
    anyone modifying a cartridge outside that definition would be illegally in possession of section 1 ammunition, but the shotgun itself would remain Section 2.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsxrman View Post
    I get all of that, but if my rifles are set below the limit with my chosen ammo and its tested it is legal. If someone alters the set up, changes the ammo, alters the power adjuster etc then they have made the set up illegal surely. Surely the law doesn't say "air rifle with potential to be FAC", otherwise everything is illegal.
    The law says "capable" of exceeding 12fpe,

    If it goes over simply by changing the pellet, then that rifle is very clearly "capable", as it stands.
    If by simply turning a finger adjuster or pushing a lever, again it is clearly "capable" as found.

    However if it requires a tool or tools to carry out adjustments, then equally clearly it has been 'workshop set' to be legal.

  11. #26
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    It has been proven in court that if you buy a new rifle and it is then tested over the limit the punter who bought it isn't to know, nor has the ability to test that. They bought it in good faith that all was above board.
    However, if you make changes then you should go and have it tested that it remains under the limit with your usual pellet.
    There is an understanding that not all air rifles shoot to the same power with different pellets, nor temperatures, and even the Police now agree. All you have to prove is that with your "usual" pellet it shoots under the limit. If you have made a whole lot of changes then it would be prudent to take steps to test it and ensured that it stays under the limit. Playing the ignorance card only goes so far. The onus is on the Police to show you have gone out of your way to break the law. A 14ft/lbs rifle kind of does if tinkered with. The Police have to make a case now that you intentionally made it all so.
    So if you feel like it then do have your rifle shooting close to the limit with the pellet it likes. How close is your call, just don't take the mick.

    As important with springers is what power does the rifle "behave well" at? Under the limit. Half my rifles shoot well under at 10 to 11ft/lbs.

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    If you watch one of the AAR reviews on YouTube he test the guns with different pellets, it gives a better illustration of the difference in power levels achieved with different weighted Pellets.
    Its not a massive difference in most cases, just keep it in mind when tweaking.
    Pick your favourite pellets, chrono the gun to be sure and enjoy.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anothermiss View Post
    Nope. If a pellet is readily available to the shooter, they can test with it.itvavoids the simple workaround of a rifle running (random number, here..) 18ftlb with jsb.
    Imagine the shooter knew this and had a pocket full of intentionally oversized slugs for the bore, meaning rifle could only achieve 10ftlb with them. Shooter sees cop coming, slings jsb in a stream. Then says "I only shoot these, officer" presenting the slow, oversized slugs.
    Some people just can't conform. Me and my uncle had this discussion recently where he's said "20ftlb should be allowed for hunting" which is a fair argument. I pointed out if that was allowed, people would only want 21ftlb and would run their rifles as close to the higher limit as possible.
    I think its a human condition. Folk seem to be obsessed with more is better, in all aspects of life.
    This is allowed, it's called FAC
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muskett View Post
    The Police have to make a case now that you intentionally made it all so.
    Sorry buddy, this is just wrong

    The law says "capable", it says nothing about the police proving you intentional made it so.

    As an example, I unknowingly buy an air gun running at 20fpe from a bloke in the pub, I've never altered or tested it, and he says it's only 6 months old and a standard sub 12fpe gun - if it gets tested a week later while in my possession - will the police do me for having a firearm

    The answer is clearly YES
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    Fool you if you end up in jail.
    Several cases the Police lost because how does the average punter know without test equipment? They can't nor expected to either.
    They can demand that the air rifle be serviced to get back under the limit where it belongs, and you can't have it back until it is.
    Or they might try to make a case you intentionally made it illegal, which is a bigger matter all together.

    I agree that pushing against the system isn't wise. There may be idiots out there, but don't be one. But then again don't live in fear that the Police might throw you in jail either. Don't take their word for it either, as annoyingly the Police have been shown not to be anyone's friend in such matters. When it comes to the Police don't give them any information at all, as they may use it against you.
    The biggest abuse is "the laws the law"; but the law is actually a lot more forgiving in most matters. Why there are juries that have the final decision.
    Again I'm not advocating trying your luck when it comes to the law as testing it costs a bomb. And you might have it all wrong.

    "Capable" is very obscure. If you put lighter fuel in any barrel then it can go FAC. Is that "capable"? The Police can't use "capable" in the widest of context.
    I suspect if you have a defence that you believed the air rifle was within the law and had no reason to expect otherwise, then you should be fine. It is not for you to police stuff you haven't the equipment nor knowledge to. Having said that an enthusiast with all the equipment might have less of a defence, but only if proven that the intent was to keep it over the limit.

    Just all be sensible. No need to live in fear, but then don't go testing the system as its there for a reason.
    Last edited by Muskett; 30-01-2023 at 06:01 PM.

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