What ft/lb would be considered safely legal to set a springer?

[Anothermiss]

Fool you if you end up in jail.
Several cases the Police lost because how does the average punter know without test equipment? They can't nor expected to either.

I agree that pushing against the system isn't wise. There may be idiots out there, but don't be one. But then again don't live in fear that the Police might throw you in jail either. Don't take their word for it either, as annoyingly the Police have been shown not to be anyone's friend in such matters. When it comes to the Police don't give them any information at all, as they may use it against you.
The biggest abuse is "the laws the law"; but the law is actually a lot more forgiving in most matters. Why there are juries that have the final decision.
Again I'm not advocating trying your luck when it comes to the law as testing it costs a bomb. And you might have it all wrong.

"Capable" is very obscure. If you put lighter fuel in any barrel then it can go FAC. Is that "capable"? The Police can't use "capable" in the widest of context.
I suspect if you have a defence that you believed the air rifle was within the law and had no reason to expect otherwise, then you should be fine. It is not for you to police stuff you haven't the equipment nor knowledge to. Having said that an enthusiast with all the equipment might have less of a defence, but only if proven that the intent was to keep it over the limit.

Just all be sensible. No need to live in fear, but then don't go testing the system as its there for a reason.

Some good advice here. However if the rifle has been found to be s1 and even if the police decided not to pursue prosecution, there would be a chop saw coming straight across the offending "pride and joy". No opportunity to just turn it down a bit.

[Muskett]

Some good advice here. However if the rifle has been found to be s1 and even if the police decided not to pursue prosecution, there would be a chop saw coming straight across the offending "pride and joy". No opportunity to just turn it down a bit.

Depends how far off limit. If a smidge then a dealer could be asked to pick it up to detune to legal. Here, the owner is making reasonable steps once they have found out their "odious crime". Part of a defence is that the gun shouldn't be and if it is it quite obviously requires servicing by someone competent. The Police can't just go cutting up stuff because they say so. The Police often play the card knowing most people can't afford a legal battle. However, never take a caution, or admit to being guilty of anything. That can be enough to mess your whole shooting hobby up forever.
If you can't work out, or feel, you have done anything wrong then you probably haven't. Even if you have technically, inadvertently, it doesn't mean you are off to some penal colony. Annoyingly, the Police are just looking for a stat to show they are fighting crime and sadly you might do. Don't let them. Often the Police are fishing and may be pretty threatening with it. Why its best to say nothing, and have any questions put in writing to be answered later with your legal advisor. Police knowledge of the law isn't much higher than most people's, though many would like to think otherwise.

I'd add, don't give them a reason either. Nor is there a Cop hiding in every bush.

[cooper_dan]

FT and HFT shooters have been running as close to the limit as they dare (with their chosen pellets) for many years. Hundreds of people going out every weekend running right on the limit. How many people do you know that have had even had their guns checked, let alone been prosecuted for something?
I don't know a single person out of the many hundreds I have met at various competitions around the country.

This obviously isn't legal advice, just an observation. If the plod were just out to get us (as some people seem convinced they are), they would be waiting outside the carpark of an FT shoot. We literally advertise exactly where we are going to be and at what time. It would be easy pickings for them! And using any pellets they want, would be almost guaranteed prosecutions every single week.

But they clearly don't do this do they. So maybe, just maybe, you actually need to give them a good reason to check.

So use some common sense. If you are shooting competitions and organised events, run at 11.999 and have at it.
If you are shooting a new permission right next to a footpath or industrial estate, maybe run 10.5 on the off chance there is a complaint

[Anothermiss]

Depends how far off limit. If a smidge then a dealer could be asked to pick it up to detune to legal. Here, the owner is making reasonable steps once they have found out their "odious crime". Part of a defence is that the gun shouldn't be and if it is it quite obviously requires servicing by someone competent. The Police can't just go cutting up stuff because they say so. The Police often play the card knowing most people can't afford a legal battle. However, never take a caution, or admit to being guilty of anything. That can be enough to mess your whole shooting hobby up forever.
If you can't work out, or feel, you have done anything wrong then you probably haven't. Even if you have technically, inadvertently, it doesn't mean you are off to some penal colony. Annoyingly, the Police are just looking for a stat to show they are fighting crime and sadly you might do. Don't let them. Often the Police are fishing and may be pretty threatening with it. Why its best to say nothing, and have any questions put in writing to be answered later with your legal advisor. Police knowledge of the law isn't much higher than most people's, though many would like to think otherwise.

I'd add, don't give them a reason either. Nor is there a Cop hiding in every bush.

I'd be careful about offering legal advice to people. It may not be in their best interests. To following to the letter, and some believe everything on the Internet.

I'd be more inclined to seek proper legal advice.

Also I can't see how, once something has been recognised a s1, it would be detuned and given back to the owner. Assuming the owner says "it's gone up on its own" the plod would be in a rather sticky position handing it back. Especially if the rifle has a tenancy to "tune itself up".
Once a s1 always a s1?

[HW777]

Do we really require yet another self flagellating politically correct discussion on this done to death topic?

I was wondering this myself

For the view point of humane dispatch, 11-12 fp energy is puny.

Giving the shooter the choice to shoot a chosen pellet and shoot near the limit but not over would be a far better idea, but if your then dumb enough to get your collar felt and found shooting pellet/s over the limit, that choice was yours and expect the law to act accordingly.


The 12 lbs ft law is over 50 years old, a simple revision to include the above, this would put the onus firmly with the shooter to dispatch prey with the most power available to them without exceeding 12 fp with their choice of pellet.

Common sense falls short of the mark in this case and around and around we go, getting nowhere fast.

[Dave2345678]

TBF they probably not even considered the Airgun as being a legitimate tool for pests, more likely considering it an older youths tool for pot shotting.
A much more sensible thing, would be the person with permission, or a landowner could use the power he likes power to get the job done, but the rest limited to 10-11
Most on here seem to favour 10.5 as being ideal for FT anyway …even if i would prefer much more for hunting.

[Anothermiss]

The law isn't really maintained for people who are willing to have the adult discussion that we are all engaged in.
I think it's more for those that are less responsible

[robs5230]

I normally set springers to a max of 10.5 - 10.8 with the most efficient pellet.
I check ME in summer and winter and adjust accordingly

[Dave2345678]

I normally set springers to a max of 10.5 - 10.8 with the most efficient pellet.
I check ME in summer and winter and adjust accordingly

The problem is, whilst most models may seem nicer to shoot at 10.5 typically and thats fine, but Ive been out with an FAC registered pal using a Rapid and a Patriot (both legally running 20 ish) and the difference on game was night and day.
Even shot placement became less critical. Completely broken skulls on Squirrel. Less than ideal body shots, ripped clean through and didnt seem any lesser for not having been ideally shot.
The energy given up thing in regard of not passing through seemed mute.
Both sides of the shoulders done at 30 yards, which at 10.5 would have been a bad hit.
It has to be better to have that availability for the private game shooter, then having the choice to go up in pellet weight/slug if you dont wish the pass through.
Legitamate hunter/land owner gets choice. FT a 12 limit.

[Muskett]

I was not trying to give legal advice, but trying to inform people that they should take "real" legal advice and not rely on the Police's for anything. Find yourself in a position with gun and police and its all knew to you, and annoyingly the Police have a poor reputation for being helpful. Quite dangerous to your future hobby, which is why I caution people to do anything other than get good legal advice before saying anything or agreeing to anything. Ask politely why they are getting involved. State why you think you are legal and then don't elaborate further. More means going professional legal advice.
I wish it wasn't so.

Shoot within the farmyard and 8ft/lbs will do it as pellet placement is all that matters. If shooting 40m then as close to the limit would be my advice. Only pellet placement matters.
HFT/FT whatever you can keep the most accurate.

FAC Air is a completely different ball game in so many ways including impact on quarry.

[angrybear]

It has been proven in court that if you buy a new rifle and it is then tested over the limit the punter who bought it isn't to know, nor has the ability to test that. They bought it in good faith that all was above board.

There is an understanding that not all air rifles shoot to the same power with different pellets, nor temperatures, and even the Police now agree. All you have to prove is that with your "usual" pellet it shoots under the limit.

The onus is on the Police to show you have gone out of your way to break the law.

The Police have to make a case now that you intentionally made it all so.

Kindly supply the written evidence that supports any of your above claims

I agree that at least some of them have been 'proposed' by (I think) the association of chief police officers firearms review team, as worthy of consideration,
along with the need for a standardised test, but afaik none as yet have any form of Home Office approval.

[angrybear]

The problem is, whilst most models may seem nicer to shoot at 10.5 typically and thats fine, but Ive been out with an FAC registered pal using a Rapid and a Patriot (both legally running 20 ish) and the difference on game was night and day.
Even shot placement became less critical. Completely broken skulls on Squirrel. Less than ideal body shots, ripped clean through and didnt seem any lesser for not having been ideally shot.
The energy given up thing in regard of not passing through seemed mute.
Both sides of the shoulders done at 30 yards, which at 10.5 would have been a bad hit.
It has to be better to have that availability for the private game shooter, then having the choice to go up in pellet weight/slug if you dont wish the pass through.
Legitamate hunter/land owner gets choice. FT a 12 limit.

That's exactly what we already have if you want/need more power for hunting, you can go FAC, if not you have the 12fpe max.

[Black Beard]

The police don't test guns themselves. They get a company to do it who use light, medium and heavy pellets (equivalent to hobbys, FTTs and bisley magnums). Just test your gun with equivalent pellets so it doesn't go over the limit.

Personally, I think they should put FAC airguns on shotgun certificates as they are less dangerous than shotguns.

[angrybear]

Personally, I think they should put FAC airguns on shotgun certificates as they are less dangerous than shotguns.

High power airguns can match if not exceed rimfire rifles In many cases they're lethal at a range far beyond that of a shotgun

[Black Beard]

High power airguns can match if not exceed rimfire rifles In many cases they're lethal at a range far beyond that of a shotgun

A shotgun with buckshot is more lethal than a rimfire rifle. Those 8mm balls have a lot of energy and go a long way. They could always stick in a calibre or energy limit.