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Lots of opinions but still no facts regarding this.
Both my rifles run 11.5+ with the exact same pellet that luckily works really well in both. Now I don't own or possess any other pellets, after testing and rejected they were given in to the club for others to try.
So what law have I broken? Yes I could find a pellet to top 12ftlb in one or both my rifles, but I haven't. I only possess 1 pellet and the chrono proves the combo is legal, I record the test results and keep them. Surely there has to be some sort of common sense here. I am not interested in FAC air, never have been. I have said many times that for me a perfectly placed 7.9 grain premier takes out any airgun quarry at FT ranges, and at which I practice a lot. Most people set the springers power lower to make the recoil more sedate, and not really anything to do with the law.
Why have a legal limit of 12ftlb and then have to run your rifle at 10-10.5 to make sure you are always legal with pellet, lube or test someone may do.
Your car can sit at 30mph in a 30 zone but has serious potential to go over the limit by simply pressing a pedal, but you don't and therefore haven't broken the law.
I am interested in the facts though, someone's genuine experience on either side of the law.
Do we need this thread, not sure, I for one would like some facts, and to me it is better than the "recommend me a pair of trainers" or "what's ya favourite colour" threads.
VAYA CON DIOS
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The simple answer is peace of mind, especially as you get olderOriginally Posted by gsxrman
I would like to rely on common sense but don't always feel I can these days, do you?
So, when it comes to gun law better safe than sorry when it's not clear but I am reading what you guys are saying with interest
Lost love child of David Niven and Victoria Beckham
There is only one fact... Over 12 ft/lbs is illegal.
The rest is subjective.
How and why the gun was acquired for testing can both come into play and can influence how the gun is assessed should the gun find its way into police hands.
The responsible shooter will run his gun under the limit with a safety margin (some more than others) and tested with a variety of pellets of differing weights.
Who is right and who is wrong - who knows?
Just be sensible and don't be stupid and the likelihood is you'll never find out with any luck.
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Air Rifles running over 12ft/lbs require a FAC licence. Those running under require no license.
If you were found to be in possession of a FAC rated air rifle that had no license then you could be prosecuted for not having a license.
Most people have no way of testing what power their air rifle is running at, nor does the Law expect them to for Shops are not allowed to sell them over the limit. Same goes for buying from a mate who wouldn't know either.
Start tuning and messing with the air rifle, like putting in a dirty big spring, then that is something different. Found with a 14ft/lbs air rifle without a license rightly would get you into a heap of trouble; don't do it.
The Police aren't your friends. Always take professional Gun experienced legal advice.
I agree with Blackbeard that FAC air to say under 30ft/lbs could be put on Shotgun Licenses. FAC air increases lethality on small game quite marketably, however also increases the safety considerations. Air Rifles are used to shoot airwards as are shotguns, something that can't be done with FAC, not even .22LR Sunsonics.
Either don't have the testing equipment and don't mess about with your air rifle, or do have the equipment, do as you like, and test it with enough margin that you don't go over the limit. How close you want to go is your call, but I suggest be careful.
It's never worth going over the limit without a FAC license.
One of the big changes are the scope of different weight pellets now available. There used to be just a few weights, but now all kinds from very light weight to heavy monsters. These can give different power outputs and muddies the waters. Why many here suggest testing with different weights to be sure.
To answer the OP's question then most would say whatever the springer shoots accurately at. Some springers are well behaved at the higher limits and can be tuned to be very close to the legal limit. To me a rifle shooting at around 11.6ft/lbs would be making the most of the power regulations for no license rifles.
Go ahead,,, String that bow
Perhaps we could widen this thread for people with chronos to say which pellets have recorded highest power levels with individual rifles and hopefully trends will show up, then we could focus on the pellets most likely to record highest Mv and use them as warning limits.
For instance my .25 99 gave approx. 11 fpe with H&N FTTs and Marksmans but only 10 with the 25gr pellets I tested confirming conventional wisdom that springers like lighter pellets ( unless super light pellets show otherwise).
My .22 Meteor was similar with 18 gr pellets giving less than super domes at 14.5.
I genuinely thought I could add to this today by using a .177 JSB test tin, Seven sorts of pellets x50 all divided off. 2 heavies and five identical looking light variants. No mention at all of which is which
It does not matter that mine are not right up to the limit it's the difference in pellet with same gun that matters
Do you have any results to report?
Last edited by Dornfelderliebe; 31-01-2023 at 02:55 PM. Reason: grammar
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The waters aren't muddy. If you rifle will exceed 12ftlb within a commercially available pellet and its found doing just that, the offence is made out.
Its your responsibility to ensure that doesn't happen.
Ignorance will be no defence.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1969/47/made
Note the word "capable" in the offence wording. Not an opinion. Thie is the law and its a very simple to interpret.
Last edited by Anothermiss; 31-01-2023 at 05:58 PM.
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You get dieseling in any air gun and it might go over the limit. Dieseling might be due to the weight of a particular pellet over another one causing the ignition of an oil.
To suggest everyone should test their air rifles with several £14 a tin of pellets isn't sensible. Once it was buy an air rifle from shop with a tin of pellets and you were good to go. That is true today.
I agree that the legal limit is 12ft/lbs and under. How a Judge or Jury makes of an indiscretion is for them, and not the Police. I suggest no one goes out of their way to test that.
Where we differ is how we both interpret the Law. European Law attitude: where you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent; and British Law: where you are innocent until proven otherwise? British Law doesn't require everyone to be some expert and have testing equipment.
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Sorry but yes of course its muddy. Define "capable", and using what parameters. I have read the law several times and it never gets any clearer. It doesn't mention any commercial pellet readily available it mentions "a missile", which could be and arrow, dart, ball bearing, slug or pellet. It was written when most air rifles were like toys, and only a few were capable of being this powerful. We now have precision engineered equipment, testing kit and more ammo available that any one will actually test with. So there will be a pellet or "missile" somewhere that will take a full power rifle beyond the limit. Too much oil or grease in the chamber of a springer and "bang" ya over the limit. The test with light, heavy and medium pellets is no safety net either. My Ripley shoots my 7.9 premiers at 11.6, JSB 8.44 at 11.2 and Bisley Magnums at 9.5. It hates magnums but 10.3 Premiers go right at 12. That is 2.5ftlb difference between 2 pellets of very similar weight. So which heavy pellet do you test with etc? Unless the way a rifle will be tested is released and in what way it will always stay muddy. I cant see all serious FT/HFT shooters turning the power down to 9, but then I cant see any of them being worried or subjected to the police test as they are all responsible people and shooting within the law.
VAYA CON DIOS
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The argument "I don't want to waste my pellets at £14 a tin for testing" would not be well received by the courts or police. I'd suggest that the counter to that would be "you cant afford to maintain it safely? you should have thought about that prior to undertaking the sport"
You have a personal responsibility to observe the law.
Likes to wear driving gloves in the bedroom
Ultimately the law is the law - fact, that's it, not up for debate, if your gun gets tested and is over 12fpe then regardless of what pellets they use, your in the wrong and wide open to prosecution.
What actually happens to you is likely to be dependant on how much your over, how nice a bloke you are, and if the judge and barrister are decent and reasonable people - but you will still be found guilty, because the law is the law, even if you get a slap on the wrist and a caution - just try taking the kids to Florida with that on your record
Making a mockery of growing old gracefully since I retired
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An HW80 is capable of 7ft/lbs for the German market; 11.5ft/lbs for the UK market, and 18ft/lbs for the US market.
You are an idiot if you run around knowingly with an unlicensed FAC rated air rifle. The airgun community don't want such idiots, no one does.
To get prosecuted takes quite a lot to stick, but if it does stick its pretty serious. The Police and their Test centres are not allowed to force a gun to fail the tests. Always best to have a qualified gun related solicitor/barrister for your defence as the Law isn't quite so shut and stuck as some here suggest. It will cost a bomb too, with no guarantee of the result. Basically, don't go there.
For all this "threat" of prosecution it shouldn't be anything to worry about for few people are ever going to find themselves in such a difficult situation. The Police are not hiding behind every bush.
I find these conversations a put off to those thinking of taking up the hobby. Thousands upon thousands enjoy the airgun sports and never have any such problems, as such stuff is exceedingly rare. When they do happen then its probably because someone is being a complete idiot.
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Not quite the point i was making but I wouldnt argue very strongly.That's exactly what we already haveif you want/need more power for hunting, you can go FAC, if not you have the 12fpe max.
I was talking without having FAC rules…
A landowner/pest controller being found to be over but not having an FAC….performing a legit role with correct power for the task at his disposal.
Anyone else being sub 12 ftlbs…
Surely if such a shooter were allowed to push his power to allow a more definite kill, it would not be a bad thing if caught in the right setting and with the correct rights to be there. If not in that setting, you would not justifiable need the power.
As it stands many such individuals rarely go to the trouble of trying for FAC.
I was quite shocked at the difference it made…Super flat trajectory out to 60 yards and devastation on the quarry.
Perhaps marginally more upward barrel flip on the Theoben Rapid but i wouldn't spit on the diff, but pellet through both shoulders on a Squirrel at 45 ish paces not something ive encountered with my own 10-11.5 shooting.
Thing was running about 20ftlbs for the record. (On FAC)
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Right, well as you already know that, if you had any sense you would simply set it that those premiers topped out at 11.5-11.6 NOT "right at 12"
that way you could be confident that should it, for any reason, be subject to an official test it would pass.
I'm also intrigued by what law you have read several times that you cannot understand, save that it's pure "bloody mindedness" in that you don't want to understand it
The term "missile" covers any projectile of any type, therefore removing arguments that "it says pellet but that is a "slug" not a pellet" or similar, in the same way that the term "air weapon" covers any air gun/air rifle/air pistol or air anything else.
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The problem is that your argument is based on law abiding shooters,
while the actual law has to be written based on the most moronic, dishonest, lawbreaking, idiotic, drug addled, waste of oxygen, we are forced to share the planet with.
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Well yes I agree with that
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