20 Calibre saves a lot of hassle discuss

[angrybear]

I can see past .177, have used all calibres and FAC air. Like Mr Bear says it could be HFT mentality, but my opinion is also based on a lot of experience. I have also said many times HFT and FT is a hunting simulation competition. Go take your .20,.22 and .25 and see how you get on. Every plate you hit is a wounded animal!!

I could do all my shooting with any of the other calibres, but it wouldn't be as easy as with .177, and that is my main point, .177 sub 12 is the easiest to get on with and achieve good results so surely this makes it the best calibre sub 12.

Except it isn't really,
because in competition you must take every shot, and take it from a pre-set location & shooting position, which just doesn't apply in the field.

Your last line for me absolutely nails it, and I've tried not to use the word throughout;

" .177 is the "easiest" to get on with "

Yes, and that's why it's the most popular, but I disagree that 'easiest or popular' bear any relevance to being "the best" across the board.

[Muskett]

I'm with gsxman on this discussion.

The .20 is a compromise. It isn't as flat shooting as a .177, nor has the wallop of the .22. It limits maximising advantages of prioritising either velocity or weight; just gets stuck in the middle somewhere.

So what is the point? Because they are fun, and just something different to try. If velocity doesn't really matter much, nor weight, then not a bad choice. Still have to sort out the ballistic drop and everything else required.
Limited pellet choice might not allow for much tweaking to get the absolutely best that can be had unless just lucky.

If hitting the mark is the priority with 12ft/lbs air rifles then most people find the flatter shooting .177 easier to do that at all normal ranges; which makes it the "best". If you can do the same with all the other calibres then there isn't a "best". Few can.

FAC then everything changes.

[HW777]

I'm with gsxman on this discussion.

The .20 is a compromise. It isn't as flat shooting as a .177, nor has the wallop of the .22. It limits maximising advantages of prioritising either velocity or weight; just gets stuck in the middle somewhere.

This all revolves around pellet design and weight, how is a .20 11.4 grain pellet a compromise compared to a 8.4 grain .177 pellet and what is the lightest well made .22

The .177 is a tad to light, .22 is too loopy to shoot at range.

So for those in the know, .20 offers velocity pellet weight and range out in the field.

Now who can we find to twist the arm of H&N ? To offer their old range of .20 pellets.

For a 10 grain .20 pellet would really level the field against those that are to narrow minded to see the potential of .20 @ 12fpe

[gsxrman]

This all revolves around pellet design and weight, how is a .20 11.4 grain pellet a compromise compared to a 8.4 grain .177 pellet and what is the lightest well made .22

The .177 is a tad to light, .22 is too loopy to shoot at range.

So for those in the know, .20 offers velocity pellet weight and range out in the field.

Now who can we find to twist the arm of H&N ? To offer their old range of .20 pellets.

For a 10 grain .20 pellet would really level the field against those that are to narrow minded to see the potential of .20 @ 12fpe

Again, an 8.4 pellet is too light for what?
.177 heavies are 10-10.5 where the .20 is 11-14 or there abouts. So the .2 offers a little bit more mass but is loopier due to weight and slightly increased frontal size.
If someone made a 10 grain .2, it would still be slightly larger than .177 and probably longer, and in my experience and testing has proved that a shorter well made pellet is more stable in the wind than a longer one, therefore the .2 would still lose out on stability, trajectory and power retention to a 10 grain .177 premier, but no one is going to do this unless the lead ban forces the .177 out.
I aren't narrow minded, all my comments come from years of experience and masses of testing.
I don't believe in needing hitting power, I believe in accuracy. This alone is why at sub 12 .177 beats .2, .22, .25.

Sniper uses a .3 round and usually trained to aim centre mass, if he hits enemy in shoulder or stomach the round goes straight through and doesn't achieve instant kill. Same shot with a .5 round would destroy the shoulder but again not achieve instant kill. Yet both rounds would instant kill, if he hit his mark. Hit a man in the "ski mask" with a .22LR and its instant kill. I know someone will say but "so and so" lived with a bullet in his head for days etc., 99% of the time the "ski mask" shot is instant kill whether it be a man or airgun quarry.

So sub 12, hit the mark, using .177 makes this more achievable. If you cant and need "hitting power" then go 40ftlb and .25 or better still just use a Rim.

[brian747]

i have an easy solution to this debate, i shoot all calibres
and own or have owned all of them, i currently own.177, .22,
.20,.25,in springers and pcp,s,i like to shoot them all,
there is only one important thing--ACCURACY.!!!!!!!
atb brian

[Muskett]

This in heaps ^

Those defending the .20 have to narrow the goal posts so .20 seems to have the advantage.
Pin point accurate with any of the calibres and they all work fine.

[prosport.177]

Is it any wonder the country's in a mess.. Here we are having a debate on a cal choice and here we are going around in circles not getting anywhere on a small subject of cal choice..,
Those that like the cal defending it and giving opinions on its merit..
Those that can not see the point of .20 and would rather shoot .177 .22..
What is the point in these debates?

[Muskett]

I agree there is too much argument for argument sake.

With 12ft/lbs rifles the only thing that delivers, matters, is perfect shot placement. Be that hunting or competitions.
All the calibres require doing a drop chart.
The higher the velocity the flatter the shooting, and longer the Point Blank range.
Few people can equal a laser rangefinder for judging range.
Beyond 20m then rangefinding gets really tricky.
No calibre has the smack power to compensate for poor shot placement.

Getting all the calibres to shoot well is shooting time. Whats not to love? "Best" is making a perfect shot placement. Easiest at the longer ranges is the .177. All take real application to hit tiny every time.

[gsxrman]

Except it isn't really,
because in competition you must take every shot, and take it from a pre-set location & shooting position, which just doesn't apply in the field.

Your last line for me absolutely nails it, and I've tried not to use the word throughout;

" .177 is the "easiest" to get on with "

Yes, and that's why it's the most popular, but I disagree that 'easiest or popular' bear any relevance to being "the best" across the board.

Well yes there has to be some kind of rule system, but the parameters for hunting are the same with HFT especially, and most "discs" are larger than the "kill area" of the quarries brain. Targets are critter shaped most of the time and set at real life distances and angles, just like the field. Rats on ground at 15 yards, squirrel in a tree at 25 yards etc, which of them would you not take in the field.
I know it is not for everyone, but it defo makes a point if you have a go, and it definitely opened my eyes and made me a much better hunter with an air rifle.