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Thread: 20 Calibre saves a lot of hassle discuss

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsxrman View Post
    Yarn Yarn. Same old same old.
    .20 is unnecessary and almost pointless.
    For the flattest trajectory, tightest groups and more success on a FT/HFT course you choose .177.
    For hunting of any power level, accuracy kills not size, so again the most accurate calibre, smallest groups etc .177 under 12ftlb.
    FAC air .22 or .25, but I don't really see the point. If you need more range than FT ranges then use Rim or HMR.
    Except .177 is NOT "the most accurate calibre" because no 'calibre' is more accurate than any other,
    .177 is simply advantageous to shoot because the flatter trajectory helps cover minor range estimation errors.

    & frankly, if you "don't see the point" of FAC-air, you obviously don't know what you're talking about there's far more to it than just outright range.

    Oh & "Rim or HMR" HMR is Rimfire

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by the growler View Post
    The jsb 15.9grain pellet transforms the .20 in fac.
    Well it might, but my point is a .22 or .25 shot at the same velocity still makes more sense

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrybear View Post
    Well it might, but my point is a .22 or .25 shot at the same velocity still makes more sense
    Got both the 22 and 25 fac airguns covered. But the .20 fac logun and rapid are harder hitting with the heavy jsb .20. If you can find them.

  4. #19
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    There are currently 3 designs of .20 pellets from JSB and 2 designs from H&N, although H&N hold to key and still hopefully hold the moulds/dies to a far larger choice of .20 including a lead free design from Pax/Prometheus.

    One odd ball one that is sold by I hunter perplex's me, it looks like a JSB but is 5mm not the 5.1mm JSB offer in their range

    Are Daystate sovereigns and Hw .20 just rebranded JSB's ?

    Weihrauch still offer this calibre of rifle and Walther still make this cal of barrel, so while this is the case this cal is not obsolete.

    Don't knock it till you try it but this has been made difficult by no one willing to invest in it

    Back in the day I shot .20 H&N semi hollow points to great effect with a Original 45 .20 700+fps with a 10 grain pellet, flat and fast with more surface area than a .177 and far less pellet drop from a .22.

    This calibre really does suit our sub 12 fpe better than the other's.
    Hw77+7 SLR Klip Springer

  5. #20
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    never hot on with my hw 100 in 20 cal

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapidresponse1 View Post
    never hot on with my hw 100 in 20 cal
    With the limited pellet choice that doesn't surprise me and I have read posts where the Hw100 was said to have had a less than favourable .20 barrel fitted.

    As Weihrauch still sell special order .20 rifles, I would have thought it shouldn't be to much to ask, for H&N to do limited runs of their old .20 pellet range, I believe that request would need to come from the likes of Hw to make it happen though.

    Imagine if Weihrauch suddenly out of the blue offering limited runs across the board of their rifles all in .20 but with the added lure of high grade walnut stocks with hand cut checkering in the style of yesteryear, be that their own of their own designs or in homage of Venom V Mach, who really put Hw at the top for much sort after custom tuned spring rifles.

    .20 may have been pushed in the corner but every corner has a turning
    Hw77+7 SLR Klip Springer

  7. #22
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    along with .25cal, the .20 cal is my most used calibre,
    my daystate huntsman Classic in .20 cal is my fav
    pcp and gets out most of the timei just love it.!!
    atb brian

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrybear View Post
    Except .177 is NOT "the most accurate calibre" because no 'calibre' is more accurate than any other,
    .177 is simply advantageous to shoot because the flatter trajectory helps cover minor range estimation errors.

    & frankly, if you "don't see the point" of FAC-air, you obviously don't know what you're talking about there's far more to it than just outright range.

    Oh & "Rim or HMR" HMR is Rimfire
    Sorry .177 is the most accurate in the sense that it produces the smallest groups. They are lighter so less variation of size and weight which all effect accuracy and grouping.

    So out to FT range what advantage does FAC air give me?

    Ok, my bad, I meant .22 Rim or .17 HMR
    VAYA CON DIOS

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsxrman View Post
    Sorry .177 is the most accurate in the sense that it produces the smallest groups. They are lighter so less variation of size and weight which all effect accuracy and grouping.

    So out to FT range what advantage does FAC air give me?

    Ok, my bad, I meant .22 Rim or .17 HMR
    where to start...

    .177 does not produce the smallest groups.. you are confusing group size with "hole size" or calibre size.

    lighter weight makes variations worse not better - a 0.1 grain variation is a bigger percentage of 8 grains than it is of 14 grains

    FAC air advantages out to 55 yards ? You kidding right ? Lets go with flatter trajectory, less wind affected, and a far greater impact energy (allowing shoulder / heart / chest shots rather than a small and potentially moving brain).
    Always looking for any cheap, interesting, knackered "project" guns. Thanks, JB.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrybear View Post
    While governed by the 12fpe law ALL calibres have to compromise on something.

    .177 to be fast & flat must be light wt which reduces the energy the mass can carry so it loses momentum & terminal energy faster.
    .22 due to the pellet mass hold's it's momentum & retains better terminal energy, but due to the limited muzzle energy has a far more pronounced trajectory curve.
    .20 just happens to have a frontal area x mass that suits 12fpe far better than the others, giving a better BC, & terminal energy, So while it's still a compromise, as a sub 12 HUNTING pellet it's a better compromise than either one.

    You only appreciate how good .20 really is when you actually go out & use it, in a properly set up rifle.

    However once you remove the muzzle energy limit (FAC) .22 or .25 make more sense.
    very well put

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shed tuner View Post
    where to start...

    .177 does not produce the smallest groups.. you are confusing group size with "hole size" or calibre size.
    lighter weight makes variations worse not better - a 0.1 grain variation is a bigger percentage of 8 grains than it is of 14 grains

    FAC air advantages out to 55 yards ? You kidding right ? Lets go with flatter trajectory, less wind affected, and a far greater impact energy (allowing shoulder / heart / chest shots rather than a small and potentially moving brain).
    Here we go again......177 does not produce a tighter group than a .22 at a known distance, but it is the most accurate due to errors with range, and the need to be so much more accurate in range estimation. Just look at the scores put in by people like Tench in both calibres. It is impossible to get quite as high a score in real conditions such as HFT comps and hunting with a .22

    I used .22 for 25 years until going .177 for everything. .22 is great over 12ft lbs and works better there.
    .20, waste of time due to lack of benefit and lack of choice and availability of pellets. Anyone who shoots any competition shooting sports knows that you need a good choice of pellets to make a big difference, in fact all the difference.
    Regarding FAC air, I think that they have their uses in a very few specific circumstances, but I am looking at .22 and HMR next time I renew my SGC, and go FAC as well. I need 90 yards rabbits on my land and I dont think .22 FAC air will give me that.

    Oh I am going to put up a .22/.177 debate next week just to get everyone going again!!
    BASC

  12. #27
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    The only problem I had with .20 pellets is that they donít work in a .22 gun

    As my shooting mate pointed out when my .22 stopped working properly

    I have a couple of .20 rifles and some pistols
    Make a nice change now and then

  13. #28
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    I have 177 .22 and .25
    FWIW ..if I only had to have one caliber, it would be .177. not .20 because i can hunt, benchrest, FT and HFT with it and all the most accurate guns I have are in .177.
    HFT500
    FTP900
    TX200
    HW99S
    Kalibrgun Cricket.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" -- Benjamin Franklin

  14. #29
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    All four of the standard air rifle calibres have their place, my own experience with .20 is my HW97, which shoots FTT's beautifully a bit below 700fps. A good compromise between .177 and .22.

  15. #30
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    The .20 is a very underrated calibre most have not even tried it and gave it a chance that is why it has not taken off as good as .22 or .177 i had a rapid in.20 it was amazing the only big let down is pellet availability when you want them they just about out of stock everywhere and not many manufactures do them --i have not long sold it as this lead ban we keep hearing about worried me in being stuck with a gun i could not feed--so have gone back two now my main calibre .22 just because i can stock up with pellets the most i have a another gun in .177 but rarely use it and a small stash of pellets for it --if manufactures made more .20 there would have being more .20s sold over the years i can remember when if you wanted a .20 you had to buy a Sheridan pump up Then Theoben started offering them then later HW but it was then to late --we keep hearing about .30 and .35 these are not new back when i had a .25 Sharp innova when they were unheard of A barrel for .30 was available but no commercial ammo over here I think if Steve Harper had being taken up with his barrels sooner we might have been shooting .20s .25s.30s motr now

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