Crosman 1377C american classic question.

[hellsquad]

Hi The cocking bolt/hammer spring mech.

I just got into these, the above is an example of the use of an SSG "spring stop guide" system yes ??
how does it take apart?
is the larger spring suposed to "fill" the gap it occupies? mine is 2mm short ?
the inner small spring over the rod ? WHY, what for??

The only idea is that the outer spring is to short to allow the "half cock" to operate without load ??
Confused
Help
Not like the modern 1377 !!

[Shed tuner]

no, it's not an SSG. Just a different cocking mech.

Shorter mainspring is fine. Small spring to push the knob forwards after cocking IIRC (can't remember just now).

I prefer these to bolt cocking

[HOMER]

The small over cocking rod spring, sets the trigger and iirc also takes hammer pressure from valve stem. The main hammer spring is aboot 32mm long (?) and is shorter than the gap available (@35MM?), the hammer assy I would guess was factory designed as a sealed unit, however access can be gained by milling /filing the rear of the hammer shaft to release the assembly. This is really only necessary if one or both of the aforementioned springs are in need of replacement as the standard unit is more than adequate for the pressure involved. Reassembly can be secured either by tapping / threading or secure welding of the rear hammer shaft stub at the cocking bolt.
HTH
Good luck

[T 20]

The small over cocking rod spring, sets the trigger and iirc also takes hammer pressure from valve stem. The main hammer spring is aboot 32mm long (?) and is shorter than the gap available (@35MM?), the hammer assy I would guess was factory designed as a sealed unit, however access can be gained by milling /filing the rear of the hammer shaft to release the assembly. This is really only necessary if one or both of the aforementioned springs are in need of replacement as the standard unit is more than adequate for the pressure involved. Reassembly can be secured either by tapping / threading or secure welding of the rear hammer shaft stub at the cocking bolt.
HTH
Good luck

Ah not quite --- pulling the knob rearwards sets the trigger and hammer via the larger Spring, the smaller Spring just pushes and holds the knob and its cocking rod forwards after cocking.

If the small Spring wasn't there the knob could hang out the back of the gun when cocked.




All the best Mick

[Shed tuner]

the smaller Spring just pushes and holds the knob and its cocking rod forwards after cocking.

If the small Spring wasn't there the knob could hang out the back of the gun when cocked.




All the best Mick

seems like I did remember that bit correctly

[hellsquad]

Thanks all, all info gleaned has helped a lot, howvere LOL..
SSG I am still on the fence, reason is that the cocking/firing sequence
1 The "sealed" unit can only extened so far untill hammer is free flight hence the short spring. similar to a SSG
2 Hammer then carries on for 2..5mm as the valve stem is hit by the now free flight hammer. Same as a SSG
3 Stem is now free to return with out fighting the hammer "debounced" in effect, same as SSG
There is a tiny amount of pressure left on the stem, but WAY less than if not a restricted spring/hammer unit.
Different to other guns I have as factory, so what are the thoughts?
a halfway house? with a fraction shorter stem it will work as an SSG debouce?

I aquired 3 13XX at once (swaps ) amazing how the transfer ports vary on Crosmans

[T 20]

Thanks all, all info gleaned has helped a lot, howvere LOL..
SSG I am still on the fence, reason is that the cocking/firing sequence
1 The "sealed" unit can only extened so far untill hammer is free flight hence the short spring. similar to a SSG
2 Hammer then carries on for 2..5mm as the valve stem is hit by the now free flight hammer. Same as a SSG
3 Stem is now free to return with out fighting the hammer "debounced" in effect, same as SSG
There is a tiny amount of pressure left on the stem, but WAY less than if not a restricted spring/hammer unit.
Different to other guns I have as factory, so what are the thoughts?
a halfway house? with a fraction shorter stem it will work as an SSG debouce?

I aquired 3 13XX at once (swaps ) amazing how the transfer ports vary on Crosmans

The small Spring just holds the knob closed --- nothing else.

[hellsquad]

The small Spring just holds the knob closed --- nothing else.

Yep that's why did not mention that again, now ignoring that lol...

[T 20]

Yep that's why did not mention that again, now ignoring that lol...

The hammer assembly on the knob cockers is a work of art in itself when you think about the number of components involved --- no wonder Crosman changed to bolt cocking.

[--ped--]

the slight play in the hammer strokes whilst could be thought to be the same as an SSG but it isn't ,it is they're to allow the cocking knob to go back into it's position and to allow for part tolerances
also the entire point of a pumper hammer is to dump the air fully in the valve not to conserve it (where a power limit is in force this is one of the ways of controlling output power)

[hellsquad]

the slight play in the hammer strokes whilst could be thought to be the same as an SSG but it isn't ,it is they're to allow the cocking knob to go back into it's position and to allow for part tolerances
also the entire point of a pumper hammer is to dump the air fully in the valve not to conserve it (where a power limit is in force this is one of the ways of controlling output power)

Yes, however I am looking at it with a view to transfering the ideas over to one of my co2 guns, the mech is a great thing ! Better than my SSG I made for my 2240 !! Also my 1300 is getting two nice shots (for plinking when fired from the "half cock" / posirion where stem pressure is relieved... some pumpers as you know offered a "back up shot" though I do feel that was more to do with achiving uk regs

[--ped--]

the two shots per valve charge was indeed a way of lowering power
the rear cocking was available on the ssp250 and many over the years have made rear cocking hammers for the 22xx before RSterne made his work on SSG's available me inc
Rob Rowe(rip) made some nice adj ones that were then copied by a bloke on (not as good tbh)
one of the advantages of a rear cocker is that much of the hammer can be slimmed down and made from much lighter materials as the cocking force is direct behind the hammer and doesn't cant over