Is it a Venom?

[JMH123]

Where actual provenance is unknown etc, is there any way to check if a gun is actually venom tuned by the boys themselves (without taking it apart!). Clues would be excellent blueing, set back brass trigger, brass stock screws etc etc- but a rifle might have ‘the look’ without being an authentic venom at all. I’m not aware of any official register. Any thoughts? Thanks

[colin g]

Nope,,,,, I have three as you describe but know for a fact they are not Venoms even though the observers say they are until i tell them, Even when i show them a real Venom they are baffled.
Internals are the most important part of the Venom and i am sure Paul (Mach 1.5) will be along with a better explanation, You could buy any single one of the above improvements you mentioned but the internals are a different matter.
I dont think people buy them without a picture of the internals, Ben Taylor himself of Theoben did the early Venom bluing and is quite recognizable,
Very rarely though have i seen a Venom stock on a rifle that shouldnt be there but it happens,
A full blown venom with everything done inc stock has eluded me and alas is now beyond my reach price wise, Pension wont afford such a luxury. Col

[JMH123]

Presumably there are Venom tuned examples in the original stocks?

[Geezer]

Nope,,,,, I have three as you describe but know for a fact they are not Venoms even though the observers say they are until i tell them, Even when i show them a real Venom they are baffled.
Internals are the most important part of the Venom and i am sure Paul (Mach 1.5) will be along with a better explanation, You could buy any single one of the above improvements you mentioned but the internals are a different matter.
I dont think people buy them without a picture of the internals, Ben Taylor himself of Theoben did the early Venom bluing and is quite recognizable,
Very rarely though have i seen a Venom stock on a rifle that shouldnt be there but it happens,
A full blown venom with everything done inc stock has eluded me and alas is now beyond my reach price wise, Pension wont afford such a luxury. Col

Agreed. I have a couple of HWs that superficially look very Venom, but aren’t (though they are still bloody good, and both now have Stage 1 kits in them). Happily they were both sold to me as customised - rather than Venom - rifles, so I didn’t get stung.

[colin g]

Presumably there are Venom tuned examples in the original stocks?

Of course, You paid what you could afford in those days,

[Mach 1.5]

The serial number on a rifle tells me alot about a so called venom, well that's if a serial number is available. The extras on the rifle should be correct of that period of course and also the sticker of the time. Yes Theoben and BSA did some blueing for a short while for Venom before they returned back to Webley. Mach 1.

[Craig-P]

Another thing to consider is when does it stop becoming a Venom rifle.
I had a .22 HW77k venom stage one tuned, with a setback trigger and cocking grip - purchased direct from GunBarrel Ind. Estate. I used it pretty much daily and sold it on to a mate of mine, years later, when I bought my GC2 and FT shooting took over my life.
My mate used the 77 to death and replaced the piston seal and spring time over. It was still in his collection when he sadly passed away, tens of years later.
So the only thing remaining of a genuine Venom rifle, would be the setback trigger and the sticker.
So even though I purchased that direct from Ivan and Dave, if someone else opened it up today ( if it still exists ), they'd be met with a non period correct piston seal ( they were grey coloured back then ), an aftermarket spring and a sticker - this would most likely be classed as just another 'fake' - but is it really fake?

[Thegreg]

Where actual provenance is unknown etc, is there any way to check if a gun is actually venom tuned by the boys themselves (without taking it apart!). Clues would be excellent blueing, set back brass trigger, brass stock screws etc etc- but a rifle might have ‘the look’ without being an authentic venom at all. I’m not aware of any official register. Any thoughts? Thanks

I wish there were a way to tell this. I have a highly customised Webley Tracker that is ‘suspected’ to have Venom involvement but I’ve no definitive proof of this. I’ve never taken it apart, and I’m not sure if the internals were revealed that would be “enough” to prove/disprove its possible Venom provenance. Who would decide this? It’s almost like you’d need a panel of experts like BBC’s Fake or Fortune.

I did manage to trace the maker of it’s custom stock (Gary Cane) who confirmed in writing that it was his work.

Cheers
Greg

[Mach 1.5]

The green venom seals where produced around 1990 onwards up until then the guys used reworked HW seals. If seals and springs do need replacing then Venoman does carry a few Vmach spares to bring your rifle back to spec! Mach 1.5

[evert]

Another thing to consider is when does it stop becoming a Venom rifle.
I had a .22 HW77k venom stage one tuned, with a setback trigger and cocking grip - purchased direct from GunBarrel Ind. Estate. I used it pretty much daily and sold it on to a mate of mine, years later, when I bought my GC2 and FT shooting took over my life.
My mate used the 77 to death and replaced the piston seal and spring time over. It was still in his collection when he sadly passed away, tens of years later.
So the only thing remaining of a genuine Venom rifle, would be the setback trigger and the sticker.
So even though I purchased that direct from Ivan and Dave, if someone else opened it up today ( if it still exists ), they'd be met with a non period correct piston seal ( they were grey coloured back then ), an aftermarket spring and a sticker - this would most likely be classed as just another 'fake' - but is it really fake?

Does the gun have other other modifications that sets it apart like transfer port adjustments, cylinder honing, deburring etc, that sets it apart from a standard rifle? Or was that not part of the stage one package?

[rapidshot]

I have a genuine Venom Diana Mod.34 ...the stock is standard though.

[Phil Russell]

Now I have no wish to muddy the waters but I have vague memories that many years ago someone was selling Venom stickers on 'that site' ... or were they not Venom but a sticker from another highly rated tuning house? I remember much debate about people buying said stickers to apply to rifles that had been re-blued (legitimate use?) or to rifles in order to confuse buyers??

As I remember, the general advice given was: if you want to buy a genuine 'tuning house' rifle, insist on provenance e.g. full paperwork. E.g. My notes on a rifle: (HW77)
'.22 1008589 Running at c. 11.6. Inconsistent when bought. Has Venom (?) kit with green piston seal and steel spring guide (not old HW guide) and sleeve'.
The person I bought it from thought it had been fitted with a Venom kit but there was no sticker or paperwork. It needed a good clean up to become very nice indeed.

Cheers, Phil

[Duggan]

If it’s got the original Venom stock you have got more than half a chance that the rest of the rifle is original. The American and Turkish walnut that is used today, by artists making copies of the original work is just different. Even the chequering that is done today tries in my opinion to be an exact copy. So that is not a guide to authenticity.The wood thought is it’s genetic fingerprint to be used to verify that the rifle is period as they used English and then French Walnut back in the day. If you bought a rifle off someone who could show that they had it 20 years or, so. That is great provenance, but buying from a dealer where it has passed through a few hands I would only emphasise Caveat Emptor.

[mallyally]

I have had 2 (alleged) Venom Rifles a Webley longbow from target sports with an exceptional figured (but standard )Walnut stock that came from the webley museum sale and a 77 with every indication that it was Venom but no sticker !
all these years later is anything actually a genuine untouched as it left the factory "Venom" Gary (grayling on here ) has an 80 thats getting a bit rough that he actually picked up from the factory in the 80s

I have a Mastersport that I have been inside a few times to lube or change worn bits etc is it still a Mastersport ?

[Mach 1.5]

Don't forget some of these rifles are coming on for 38 years old so some parts would / have been replaced over time. Not all mine have their paperwork but I know their history and that they are genuine. Being friends with the team from 1983 help me gain some knowledge. Mach 1.5