Mystery pistol. Can anyone help?

[ccdjg]

This mystery pistol has just come to my attention. Has anyone seen one like it before, or have any information about it? Any suggestions if it might be springer or pump-up?

[Garvin]

Weird! Looks like a cross between a Brown and a Haenel 100!

Edit: pics added.

[45flint]

Looks like a airgun copy of the first automatic pistol? Wow you come up with some unique ones!

[Biker_Bob]

Never seen one like that before.
As stated it's quite Heanel-ish in that the barrel only breaks to allow the pellet to be loaded.
That rear strap with the ring definitely looks like it cocks a spring contained in the rear half of the cylinder.
What are we thinking, 1930s?

[ptdunk]

That is a really weird pistol.

The barrel releases like an Oscar Will Gallery gun, the body and trigger looks like an F.B Record LP2 and the cocking mechanism looks like a Haenel 100.
Very interesting.

The cocking arm doesn’t seem to have the kind of linkage you’d see on a springer, maybe pneumatic?

I recon it’s a Fritz Barthelmes prototype.

Do you know anything about it, are there any markings?

The barrel release is very old fashioned but I suppose they were still making Bugelspanners in the 1930’s.

Matt

[magicesperanto]

Eine kleine Fingertrapper!

Certainly a weirdo, thanks for posting, never seen on like it.

[ccdjg]

By way of an update, an advert for the pistol has been located in a 1912 Buchel (German) catalogue:



Unfortunately the catalogue description is not informative. (Translation: No. 1662B. New model. Light. Elegant. Practical grip of parabellum form. No front weight. No. 162B: calibre 4.5mm, black finish, screw rear sight; pericorn front sight; smoothbore barrel. 27 Marks. No. 162Z: ditto, with finely rifled barrel. 28.50 Marks.)

So there is no mention of mechanism or maker.

Research is still in progress however, and the Polish collector who first spotted the actual pistol tells me he has now managed to buy it and he will let me have detailed information when he can.

Cheers,
John

[Garvin]

Couldn't there be linkage hidden by the frame that enables compression of a spring on the downward stroke? It seems a bit early for a pneumatic pistol.

https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....w1-air-pistol/

[Geezer]

1. Really interesting that in 1912 they’d advertise a (very vague) similarity to the Parabellum/Luger, which at the time was exceptionally well-regarded. Especially in Europe.

2. Looks like a springer to me.

3. Being pedantic, 45flint, the first auto pistol was the Salvador-Dumas of 1891, followed by the Lauman of 1892. The Borchardt came along in 1894. It’s arguably the first successful semi-auto pistol, and certainly best known both at the time and now of the very early ones, but success equated to no military contracts, sales in the few thousands, and a rapid redesign by Georg Luger to make the, er, Luger. But it was the father of the Luger and introduced the idea of a detachable box magazine in the pistol grip released by the firer’s thumb, which is still standard 129 years later.

4. It looks a LOT like the Schwarzlose from 1898 (a pistol whose lack of success is baffling, given its - by 1898 standards - good design features).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzlose_Model_1898

[ccdjg]

I now have it on authority that this mystery pistol is a multi-stroke pneumatic, and not a springer. The compression chamber lies in front of the pump, with the usual non-return valve. The small lever in front of the trigger releases the barrel for loading.

As to who made it, this is still an unknown, but in my opinion it is most likely a short-lived Oscar Will product. My reason for thinking this is that about a year earlier in an Oscar Will catalogue the following multi-pump air rifle appeared (the lower gun illustrated), when it was declared as a new introduction. The pistol was also announced as "new".





The accompanying blurb translates as:

The compressed air rifle has been known for many years. However the same has not yet found general distribution, since the existing models (with bicycle pump under the barrel imported from Sweden) have the disadvantage that they can only be pumped in a highly cumbersome way. The repairs that were often necessary also had an unfavourable effect on users. These shortcomings have now been remedied to the best of my ability with this compressed air rifle with lever pumping, and there is no doubt that this rifle will soon enjoy the undivided popularity of the buying pubic.
Particular advantages are the barely perceptible popping noise when shooting and the easy pull of the trigger, which enables a reliable shot. The air is held in place for days or even weeks by a patented pneumatic system. The parts are interchangeable.
The rifle is operated in the following extremely simple manner: the lever is pulled back (which closes the valve) and then the pump lever is operated. One pump stroke is sufficient for every 5 m shooting distance.

There is a close similarity between the barrel housing of the pistol and the rifle. It would seem that neither rifle or pistol were commercially successful, as they soon disappeared from catalogues, and surviving examples are almost unknown.

[micky2]

What a great find. a really interesting pistol. at least we now know what powers it. l find it strange that the pistol is almost twice the price of the rifle.

[flogger]

looks like a airgun copy of the first automatic pistol? Wow you come up with some unique ones!

borchard 1893.

[ptdunk]

Amazing find,

Does that mean Oscar Will invented the multi pump pistol? I thought that barrel release looked familiar…
I wonder if any of the rifles have surfaced before but been mistaken for a variation on the Buglespanner?

Two airguns that are now top of my holy grail wish list.

Great stuff, thanks

Matt