Is a ProSport a copy of a Venom Mach 2?

[Barryg]

Well it is similar to a pro sport but to my eye the PS is better looking! Ill get my coat!

But don't you think that the better underlever made it better

as a fan of concealed underlevers I like it but I wonder what power it could put out would it have been the same as the PS.

[Mach 1.5]

. I believe that Mr Hancock still has several unfinished triggers and Mach 2 actions, they could be finished and sold on for a lot money..

In answer to your question above. Ivan is now 77 and in not great health and doesn't have the time or money to finish off or get parts made for the last few..it's only cylinders and barrel shrouds all the other parts would need making. Sometimes it not all about making money.

We could reverse the question though, why didn't Venom (especially when backed by Webley money in 2000s) didn't kick up a fuss or sue Air Arms for copying their design?

Again In answer to your question. An Amercian gentleman had his lawyers draw up all the legal papers ready to sue over the pro sport design but action was dropped in 96 due to the awful & tragic dunblane incident. And yes I did see the paperwork and not read it in a magazine.
You would know this information as I've already told you on a few occasions. If you need anymore answers to your questions just send me a pm or text and I'll answer them.

Mach 1.5

[bandit2329]

What year did venom arms start working and selling rifle out of the gun barrel i purchased HW 35 Export from there im sure id just left school .

[Rikard]

What year did venom arms start working and selling rifle out of the gun barrel i purchased HW 35 Export from there im sure id just left school .

As previously posted by Mach1.5

Venom Conversions -Trapshot - Lye - 1981 - March 1984

Venom Arms Company - Gun Barrel Works - Cradley Heath.
24th March 1984 - 1995

Venomac Ltd. - Mucklow Hill - Halesowen.
1st August 1995 - September 1998

Webley Venom Custom Shop - Frankly Ind. Est.
October 1998 - 23rd December 2005

V-Mach - Stourbridge
10th April 2006 to 26th November 2020

[maximus]

[QUOTE=Barryg;8231487]But don't you think that the better underlever made it better

as a fan of concealed underlevers I like it but I wonder what power it could put out would it have been the same as the PS.

Not better looking, no. I know the underlever have square edges but it doesn't bother me really. I wouldn't short stroke one though as the cocking effort is high enough as it is.

[HW777]

. I believe that Mr Hancock still has several unfinished triggers and Mach 2 actions, they could be finished and sold on for a lot money..

Ivan is now 77 and in not great health and doesn't have the time or money to finish off or get parts made for the last few..it's only cylinders and barrel shrouds all the other parts would need making. Sometimes it not all about making money.

Mach 1.5

For out n out custom specials, a collaboration with Ivan and ISP would bring into being some very fine rifles

I don't have the deep pockets to fund this idea but there's bound to be some who want the last ever Venom rifles where money isn't an issue.

[Mach 1.5]

It will never happen as we have been down that route some years ago. Mach 1.5

[nurek]

Not this old chestnut again!!! If you join the venom facebook page you may get your answer direct from the horses mouth by asking Ivan himself as he does have a look in now and again and have a giggle about all the BS surrounding his and Dave's stuff. Mach 1.5

I have been informed by a mate who is on facebook that someone has copied my post from here and placed it on that page you mention, let's see what it yields, I am not holding my breath though

In the meantime I did find an interesting post by RustyBuzz (Richard Welham of Airmasters) in this topic:

https://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread...43#post7215743

Pre Ken Turner Venom tune on a 77 was debur new spring and good lubrication. Piston was left without a sleeve. If it's not a laserglide and you want it to be authentic that's all it takes.

I am not sure if anyone would actually admit that they have used someone else's ideas and made a successful business out of it. Don't get me wrong, I admire the Venom business model, great advertising and a good unique product, they have created almost a cult following in our small airgun world... I believe that Ivan was actually in charge of sales and advertising, so all credit to him in that respect.

[nurek]

The forum is very quiet and some more information is coming out of the woodwork, so here is another article from June 1987 Airgun World, stating that at one point Ivan Hancock and Ken Turner were old friends and that Ken Turner provided some solutions for the famous Venom Mach 1 airgun:



[Click on image to enlarge it]

Also, the 'screw together pivot pins' mentioned in the article, were used on Ken's own gun, the KT83 built in 1983, obviously before any Mach 1. This was confirmed by the current owner of the KT83. (Some pictures of the KT83 rifle, here: https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....rner-ken/kt83/ for those that are interested.)

So there you have it...

I am still waiting for any evidence that it was actually the other way around, and that in fact it was Venom that provided the ideas to Ken, as you can't apparently trust the airgun mags, but word of mouth is ok

Well I shall not be holding my breath on this one