This topic has been covered here a few times, but with no back up, only opinions of various people, some calling themselves experts. I am no expert, but I had access to a few pictures, and I can use a calendar to reference some dates.
This was previously covered in the following threads:
http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....a-Venom-Mach-2
https://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread...-Trigger-Units
Well, the ProSport has been called the nicest looking production spring airgun of all time, it was designed by Ken Turner, however many like to claim that it was a copy of the Venom Mach 2 design…
I thought I post here, as I have posted on another forum with some pictures and dates to back this up, also what prompted me was a post by Professor Mike Wright (RIP), who used to write springer articles with Jim Tyler BTDT on here, and lets say he knew a thing or 2 about spring guns and their history:
'History does get distorted over time, but rarely totally inverted', Arthur Miller
'All the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order' , Eric Morecambe
Back to the topic, Ken Turner made his own concealed underlever in 1982, named it the KT82 as shown below (the number, after KT indicates year of production):
Some of its features, including delrin pegs (Lazaglide, yes, Lazaglide!) are described in this article below (so who invented the Lazaglide and when? 😉:
This of course is the prototype of the ProSport, that many would like to think is a copy of the Mach 2, however, I don't think Venom made any gun in 1982, let alone a Mach 2? In fact, I think they only started work in 1981 as Venom Conversions, Trapshot, Lye, working purely on tuning Weihrauchs, not making any guns of their own. The Mach 2 didn’t appear until 1989, so this prototype predates the Mach 2 by 7 years. I believe that Ken Turner did work with Venom in the early years and did a lot of machining for them as he was an expert machinist, I guess the Venom team didn't machine their own parts, as why send machining to the South of UK with Venom being based in the Midlands? Was it cheaper? Like sending stuff to India or China now? I don’t think so.
Now while we are on this subject, let’s look at the famous Venom Mach 1. Again, Ken Turner made his prototype in 1985, named it the KT85. Note the under-barrel catch like on the Mach 1. The Mach 1 appeared in 1987 I believe, so the KT85 predated it by 2 years.
Most of Ken Turner’s guns are 'in the white' as they were made from stainless steel, which of course doesn't rust easily, but is very difficult to machine, compared to mild steel. I remember asking Shaun from ISP about making a gun out of Stainless, he said he did it once and will never do it again, as it was too difficult to machine!
Ken Turner was a quiet man, his work wasn’t advertised much and he and didn’t get the recognition he deserved in the airgun world, unlike others who claimed they have invented everything.
What I also thought was interesting, is that when Ken Turner and Venom team parted company, around 1989 (I believe, as I don’t know this for sure) the Mach 1, Mach 2 and Mach 1 trigger unit production has stopped. Surely, Venom could make them themselves, or find another competent machine shop, or could they? Many will say that the guns were too expensive to manufacture etc etc but I believe that unfinished rifles exist, but there is no one to finish them. Considering these guns sell for crazy amounts of money, it would have made sense to get them finished and sold.
So, is a ProSport a copy of a Venom Mach 2? I guess it is, as both were made and designed by Ken Turner.
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Originally Posted by Murphy
