Haenel 33 Video - full review

[ptdunk]

Let me know if my explanation of the Schmeisser repeater mechanism makes sense!

https://youtu.be/cNmLMa9XQ4Y

Cheers,
Matt

[Dornfelderliebe]

Makes sense to me and that's damned good shooting on your part.

[ccdjg]

Great video Matt, and explains very clearly, and better than I could, the repeater mechanism that was also used in the Haenel 55R pistol.

[45flint]

Could be wrong but I think Hugo copied the Daisy propulsion system? Or maybe Daisy copied it from an earlier gun? Or maybe Hugo was first? I’m sure guys here know.

https://www.pyramydair.com/article/A...August_2009/64

[ptdunk]

Great video Matt, and explains very clearly, and better than I could, the repeater mechanism that was also used in the Haenel 55R pistol.

Hi John,
So is it a scaled down version of the same mechanism? Very interesting.

Cheers,
Matt

[ptdunk]

Could be wrong but I think Hugo copied the Daisy propulsion system? Or maybe Daisy copied it from an earlier gun? Or maybe Hugo was first? I’m sure guys here know.

https://www.pyramydair.com/article/A...August_2009/64

Someone mentioned this in the video comments as well, very interesting.

So was this introduced with the Red Ryder? The schmeisser design was first seen on the Haenel 33 in 1933, not sure when it was patented.

I’d be very interested to know who copied who.

Cheers,
Matt

[45flint]

Someone mentioned this in the video comments as well, very interesting.

So was this introduced with the Red Ryder? The schmeisser design was first seen on the Haenel 33 in 1933, not sure when it was patented.

I’d be very interested to know who copied who.

Cheers,
Matt

“In January of 1903 Daisy introduced its first lever action repeater, the No. 3 which was a nickel plated, 1,000-shot rifle, that was to become the hallmark of Daisy styling and set the tone for forward thinking innovation that has served Daisy so well though the years.”

Not sure this was the same but it could have been out of patent for Hugo?

[rapidresponse1]

very interesting

[ccdjg]

Hi John,
So is it a scaled down version of the same mechanism? Very interesting.

Cheers,
Matt

Yes, it is Matt. Here is the schematic for the 55R pistol:



As far as who invented what first, Schmeisser at Haenel or LeFever at Daisy, this is a very interesting question. The air pistol patent record seems to give Schmeisser priority for the concept of a hollow probe attached to the end of the piston to guide the compressed air behind the ball while simultaneously serving to let each ball to enter the barrel from the magazine. LeFever's patent for the Daisy Targeteer dates to 1936, whereas Schmeisser's Haenel 100 pistol patent is dated 1932. However, as noted, there were various repeater BB air rifles in the USA that were much earlier, and the concept may well have been used in these. We need to hear from the vintage BB collectors on this.

[ptdunk]

Yes, it is Matt. Here is the schematic for the 55R pistol:



As far as who invented what first, Schmeisser at Haenel or LeFever at Daisy, this is a very interesting question. The air pistol patent record seems to give Schmeisser priority for the concept of a hollow probe attached to the end of the piston to guide the compressed air behind the ball while simultaneously serving to let each ball to enter the barrel from the magazine. LeFever's patent for the Daisy Targeteer dates to 1936, whereas Schmeisser's Haenel 100 pistol patent is dated 1932. However, as noted, there were various repeater BB air rifles in the USA that were much earlier, and the concept may well have been used in these. We need to hear from the vintage BB collectors on this.

Thanks John,

The 33 rifle and later Haenel 49a etc are stamped 'Schmeissers patent'. Do you know if this refers to the patent for the 100 pistol which looks like the same mechanism, except for the cocking handle, or maybe the rifle had a separate patent?

I don't know much about Daisy airguns, but if their similar mechanism was created for the Red Ryder 1938 then it came after.
I know there were some earlier Daisy BB guns that had the same winchester style underlever as the Red Ryder but that only cocked the spring and you had to load a BB manually.

It would be interesting if Daisy copied their most successful BB gun design from Hugo Schmeisser.


Cheers,
Matt

[ccdjg]

Thanks John,

The 33 rifle and later Haenel 49a etc are stamped 'Schmeissers patent'. Do you know if this refers to the patent for the 100 pistol which looks like the same mechanism, except for the cocking handle, or maybe the rifle had a separate patent?

I don't know much about Daisy airguns, but if their similar mechanism was created for the Red Ryder 1938 then it came after.
I know there were some earlier Daisy BB guns that had the same winchester style underlever as the Red Ryder but that only cocked the spring and you had to load a BB manually.

It would be interesting if Daisy copied their most successful BB gun design from Hugo Schmeisser.


Cheers,
Matt

I did a bit of research Matt, and was amazed to find that the originator of this repeater mechanisms was of all people George Peck Gunn, who applied for the patent in 1893. The granted patent was US 541085, June 18, 1895. The patent principle eventually ended up with Daisy. Gunn must have been the all-time greatest contributor to airgun development. He certainly had an appropriate name.

[Garvin]

Fantastic video, Matt and fascinating research John. Thank you both!

[45flint]

I did a bit of research Matt, and was amazed to find that the originator of this repeater mechanisms was of all people George Peck Gunn, who applied for the patent in 1893. The granted patent was US 541085, June 18, 1895. The patent principle eventually ended up with Daisy. Gunn must have been the all-time greatest contributor to airgun development. He certainly had an appropriate name.

Fasinating. I’m assuming that the CZ35 - 45 is using the same type of mechanism?

[ptdunk]

Fasinating. I’m assuming that the CZ35 - 45 is using the same type of mechanism?

Assuming it’s the same as the CZ VZ47 then it’s different. The bbs drop down from the top into the start of the barrel.

@7:42 you can see on this vid from Air Armoury:
https://youtu.be/0Px4YHTbvMk?si=YLsKCFj6R1ZrWwRa

What power does your CZ35 produce?

[DrGunn]

Another great video, thanks for sharing it with us. I’ve always been intrigued by these air rifles and now I definitely want one…
Is the Anschutz 275 essentially the same internally?