Even better looking than a HW35
Hi all, as Tone just can't seem to help himself when it comes to resurecting old threads about HW's
I thought I'd put up my observations on the two 24mm reduced cylinder conversions I have, both have been done by Nick G and are superb to shoot, now I know I'm quoting the obvious here but the differences between the two are very noticeable, now one being a Walther LGV and t'other (as they say up norf) is a Diana 34SM, both in .22, it's difficult to explain things sometimes without offending either the tuner or the followers that they seem to aquire over time, I suppose this thread is probably a comparison thread between my two rifles and obviously others, it's probably a little unfair to compare different makes and one that has already had a fair bit of R & D spent on it in the first place.
As we all probably know, the LGV is going to shoot far better than 34 because of the highly tuned internals straight out the box, it's weight numbing what little recoil it already puts out, the better trigger, the superior barrel (as well as its length) and other features it had designed into it from the factory, now all of this, is before a top tuner has threatened it with a lathe, the LGV does indeed shoot its tit's off, my son, who had never shot a rifle before, shot this rifle and was hitting hard targets with ease, the rifle can be cocked with ease with the minimum of effort with a couple of fingers, shot cycle is sublime and pellet placement is as you'd expect from a highly accurate springer.
Now onto the 34, I so wanted this rifle to blast everything out of the water, when I received it, it already shot pretty good, it had a very nice spring to rear guide setup, can't remember if it had a top hat fitted, the shot cycle was twangless and was just a thud with not much recoil, the only niggle was torque, you could feel it twisting in your shoulder, if that had been either none existent or easily remedied, then it would have been a superb rifle, the problem was for me, the 34SM was a rifle I always wanted when they first came out (I know, get me wanting a German rifle) but could never afford one at the time, over the years I dabbled with the Chinese 34 clone (in my anti German years) and had that running nice, but I always wanted to see if that centre transfer port dog leg thingy could be taken advantage of, I obtained a LGV piston years ago to see if a 25mm conversion could be done and had conversations with Bigtoe about it but nothing ever transpired, the idea was always in the back of my mind, a few years passed, the 34 clone had moved on but when the opportunity to finally have a 34SM in my mitts became a reality, it was snapped up and the cylinder reduction conversion was reborn, luckily I was living not that far from Nick G and the deed was done and the itch was scratched, this time Nick made a piston from scratch (as the LGV piston had been used in the Walther as it was a Century with the 30mm innards), it's very difficult to explain things sometimes without upsetting the tuner or their followers they have obtained over the years, the 34 shoots far better than it did before but just lacks that special something, it has nothing to do with Nicks tuning, that is superb as ever, I think I was expecting almost PCP type recoil, definitely a rose tinted glasses moment or my expectations where far to high, if I'm honest, I've not even run it in yet, mainly due to lack of time (I've not had a proper session since the May bash), I expect picking it up again in the future and getting to know it properly may result in a different feeling for it, who knows, the Wow factor may be there then, but like mentioned earlier, the 34 design is pretty old and basic (not that that is a bad thing), it has a short barrel and is lighter, so not so recoil absorbing, the extra long transfer port may not have been as good as I would have hoped but I just love a light weight carbine and would pick the 34 up over the LGV.
Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in
Registered User
Recoil displacement is very easy to calculate and purely relies on the mass of the rifle, the spring and the piston.
Even the most highly tuned springers would probably need a 15kg stock on them to approach PCP level recoil.
But what really makes the difference to how a springer feels (imo) is recoil acceleration (positive and negative).
Jim would explain it better but he's probably up a ladder fixing a roof.
Registered User
It's a shame Mr Pope never got to produce his VM3R. Same size as a 97 but the high grade air craft alloy made it as light as FWB Sport and no recoil unless you wanted it to!!. Mach 1.5
may also be employed in conjunction with a drawn reciprocation dingle arm, to reduce sinusoidal repleneration
Run it in, try different pellets, get a barrel shroud and a heavy scope.Originally Posted by look no hands
But it might be down to what you mention, that rather unusual transfer port.
As the fabled 70s tuner and part-time pirate Maeve 'Barnacle' Mutton would often say
"Transfer ports in the middle, you can have a fiddle.
Transfer ports off centre, you can try it inventor.
But long and diagonal, you better have paracetamol."
(Because headaches)
may also be employed in conjunction with a drawn reciprocation dingle arm, to reduce sinusoidal repleneration
Large lightweight rifles are always a shock. Like the Webley Eclipse. It does sound quite special, must have had a steel barrel and sliding compression chamber though?
Even better looking than a HW35
I think it might be hype as well Alistair, I read so much of Bigtoes stuff and got excited, I think my wording is probably over the top, as I knew I wasn't going to get PCP type recoil but thought there'd be less, I really must stop comparing rifles with each other but you know what my early Prosport was like, almost PCP like recoil and accuracy, I shouldn't really expect a lightweight break barrel to be the same, even after decent tuning.
Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in
Registered User
long angled transfer ports are not great for efficiency. very difficult to address that on a break barrel. the LGV has a very short central port. That'll explain a lot...
Always looking for any cheap, interesting, knackered "project" guns. Thanks, JB.
may also be employed in conjunction with a drawn reciprocation dingle arm, to reduce sinusoidal repleneration
It is very subjective as well, I think the rifle that I have fired which was the closest to the PCP thing you speak of was Shed Tuner's sleeved down ProElite.
A springer like a Diana has always got a lot of metal moving around inside it, then the pellet fit can make it vary in feel depending on where it releases. Springers are a bit of a nightmare really in terms of searching for perfection. The only springer that beats a PCP in terms of feel is the Park RH91/93. It is completely dead on firing. But it has a so-so trigger and weighs 12 lbs with a scope! If you weighted the stock of a 77 to make it weigh 12lbs it would be dead on firing as well!
One thing might work, is to detune the 34. If you trim the spring and bring the muzzle energy down to about 10 fpe with the right pellet, you may well find what you are looking for. For most shooting 10 fpe is enough, you might need a bit more skill range estimating but otherwise its fine.
I think I bought the Bigtoe 280 off you? I didnt really get on with it, it was very accurate but the feel was too gas-ram for me. I think Ill end up with just my 77k ... know what i like and like what I know. Good luck.
Even better looking than a HW35
Ah, Yes I remember the 280, that wasn't as good as I was expecting, although that was still a 28mm inside, I wanted that to be super duper as well, I believe my SFS tuned Challenger shot better.
The strange thing is, I bought an early untuned but well used 77k off a mate many moons ago and was amazed at how little recoil it had.
I think I just have high expectations.
Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in
Registered User
Weight and where it is in relation to the centre of gravity has a big impact, are we talking recoil or sight picture movement? Different things .
I recently built a tx with a very light front end , ie 12 mm diameter barrel and a CF shroud with a magnetic catch (up near the breech.) Compared to my full length gun , there's a lot more sight picture movement, the guns have identical 21 mm reduced cylinder tunes , making the same power.
Even better looking than a HW35
To be honest Nick, I've not spent much time with the 34, Tone and I shot it at the May bash and was impressed with it then and it had only had about 20 pellets through it since you had worked your magic on it, now I think about it, it does seem to be sight picture movement, the firing cycle seems over pretty quick, I need to put some more lead through soon, I've not shot a rifle since May.
Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in
Registered User
(temporarily) stick a somewhat weighty moderator on it and test...
Always looking for any cheap, interesting, knackered "project" guns. Thanks, JB.
Even better looking than a HW35
The mod that comes on it already is pretty weighty.
Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in
Registered User
Ah, OK... there goes that idea then !
Always looking for any cheap, interesting, knackered "project" guns. Thanks, JB.
Admin's pet.
If the mods strippable ....empty it out and add some lead sheeting to the inside
Loving the countryside air
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote