Webley Hurricane - was Beeman involved?

[Garvin]

My friend Mike has posted on the VAG about a Hurricane prototype for sale that includes this blurb:

This gun has a bit of History to it. It was the Very First Hurricane Prototype. This was purchased from Beeman in the 90's. It is the very gun that went back and forth several times from Webley to Beeman while they were working out the details for production guns. Only after Dr. Beeman was satisfied did production begin. It is totally unmarked, no serial number, brand, model, company name, or caliber. The gun is all blank. It was placed in a .177 caliber box and that's how it was written up. It is however the .22 model. Comes with everything in the photos. This gun is from the 70's and has been sitting idle for the past 30 years. I did not and will not test it. If it is to be used just assume it needs a piston seal at the very least. There are some parts in the box, manual, paperwork, pellets, allen key, scope mount, documents, targets, etc

The ad is on the American version of the bay auction site, item 204679897129

Is it true? Was Beeman involved?

[ccdjg]

That number doesn't work for me on the American Bay, Danny (it comes up with the message 'No exact matches found'). Is there an error in the number or has the item been removed?

[ashf9999]

Likewise - I tried it last night and nothing came up (I was logged into the US version).

I also can’t get the Vintage Airguns Gallery (for about 4 days now) including via the link on Danny’s footer…?

[Leonardj]

Firstly, Your advice worked Danny, issue sorted. Thank you.

My opinion, FWIW, is that the story accompanying that Hurricane is fiction.
Beeman would certainly have made everyone aware of any involvement by him in his catalogues if that story were indeed accurate.

As well, an "original prototype" would not have been adorned with all the features that required precision casting dies to be made (barrel muzzle casting), plastic parts castings (trigger guard, safety lever, front shroud), or precision stamping dies to be made (barrel stirrup, rear sight elevation blade, etc). An "original prototype" IMO, would have had all these parts skilfully manufactured by machinists. Once the final design is arrived at, then the time and expense of making all the associated dies up would be done.

IMO, the lack of markings alone does not justify the asking price, nor add credibility to the story.

[Hsing-ee]

This sounds like complete bullshit designed to pump up a guns value.

Just looking at a Hurricane tells you Beeman wasn’t involved, rather the marketing department at Webley trying to pimp their venerable design and try to make it relevant for the modern world of the 1970s.

The only aspect of this which is true is Beeman may have looked at a Webley and thought ‘yes, the over-the-cylinder front-pivot barrel cocker is a way of making a compact springer pistol’ then rang up his pal Herman and ordered him to make one in the image of a Colt 1911 automatic pistol …


Also, no paperwork no provenance .. anyone can buff off a serial number.

[Troubledshooter]

I've asked my Webley contact who was involved with the design/ production of the Hurricane/Tempest a the time, and he sent me the following:

Hi David,
Do you have any photographs? We would send guns to Beeman hoping he would sell them in the USA. It is possible it was one of the original 6 prototypes. It would be easy to tell by the stocksides.

So photographs could determine it's history.

[ashf9999]

It looks to me to be a first-generation Hurricane, given the longer barrel configuration. The grips look standard to me, but David may spot something I don’t. I see there is a later manual with it. There’s no obvious sign of the heat-applied Tempest marking on the forehand. As mentioned previously, it has all the standard accessories you’d expect, including Webley moulded into the scope mount, plus the typical printed box. It is in nice condition.

I think the one shown is an early production Hurricane… but for the missing barrel calibre marking? I guess David’s contact knows more - I guess (again) it could have been sent to Beeman as a marketing sample of an (possibly already) in-production UK gun…

[ccdjg]

I still can't see anything under that item number on American Fleabay , and I have also searched combinations of keywords Webley, Hurricane, Beeman and prototype - nothing relevant. Help!

[ashf9999]

I still can't see anything under that item number on American Fleabay , and I have also searched combinations of keywords Webley, Hurricane, Beeman and prototype - nothing relevant. Help!

I got it by just searching for ‘Beeman Webley Hurricane prototype’ on google, and it came up via Images to the auction site.

I still can’t get Danny’s link to work…

Looking closely, I can’t make out of the safety spot is a label version or painted (but possibly not in a depression?).

[Garvin]

If you go here there's a link to the auction:

https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/gallery-talk/how-was-the-webley-hurricane-developed-this-would-make-you-think-beeman-was-involved/#post-9644

[Garvin]

In case it helps anyone else, Len was having problems logging into the gallery, which I think was a problem with his antivirus software. This is the advice I gave him:

I'm afraid it's due to your antivirus software registering the VAG's IP address as dodgy Len. Antivirus firms locate a bad actor using a similar IP address and blacklist a whole block of IP addresses, including some that are innocent.

You have to 'whitelist' the VAG in your [antivirus] software. Ie tell it to ignore any warning about the site.

[Troubledshooter]

I've sent the link on to my Webley contact.

The prototype Hurricane I had, had cast metal grips and a solid machined forend, but that one in the auction looks to have standard grips.
I await my contact's comments.

[harvey_s]

Look for item number 204679897129 on the .com site

[ccdjg]

Look for item number 204679897129 on the .com site

Very curious - using that item number just does not work for me. However, if I use the link that Danny suggests, it works and I get to the relevant item. If I then copy the item number from that page and re-paste it into the .com site, it says the item does not exist! Could it have been taken down for some fleabay infringement I wonder?

[Troubledshooter]

Try this link, John: https://www..com/itm/204679897129 works for me.