Webley Hurricane - was Beeman involved?

[Mobiasstrip]

The advert shows a label that describes the gun as a “trial gun off production tooling”.
If this is genuine then my view is that this therefore is not a design prototype (usually hand made/finished and a one off), rather a v early gun from when the production tooling etc was still being commissioned and the gun details fine tuned. It would make sense that a pre production early example was sent to a strategic (biggest?) customer/distributer like Beeman to get them on board with the product.
Which makes it a very interesting example but not really a true prototype.
Just my opinion obviously.

[Muskett]

As above. Just an early production example to get Beeman's interest and thoughts. The papers make it interesting, and certainly Beeman will retain his historic position in Air Gun history, for his input was important. I don't think that it makes this example "highly" important, but a nice piece with double, triple, the value of an ordinary example. I doubt there is anything mechanically different, so it is the papers and provenance that hold any premium.
All adds a bit of fun, but nothing to get mad about.

[ccdjg]

Try this link, John: https://www..com/itm/204679897129 works for me.

David, I am afraid that your link doesn't work for me also.

The curious (suspicious) thing is that if I go to this item on American fleabay.com and carry out an advanced search for the seller, it comes up with nothing. This even though the seller claims to have 7276 sales to his credit, with a 100% positive rating! (I have checked the search using other sellers names and it works fine). I suspect this may have been scam and the seller does not exist, and fleabay has taken it down. Somehow indirect links like Danny's and Google still show the fake page. I could be wrong of course.

For those who are curious, this is the said fleabay item and the description:



Item description from the seller

This gun is from the 70's and has been sitting idle for the past 30 years. I did not and will not test it. If it is to be used just assume it needs a piston seal at the very least. There are some parts in the box, manual, paperwork, pellets, allen key, scope mount, documents, targets, etcThis gun has a bit of History to it. It was the Very First Hurricane Prototype. This was purchased from Beeman in the 90's. It is the very gun that went back and forth several times from Webley to Beeman while they were working out the details for production guns. Only after Dr. Beeman was satisfied did production begin. It is totally unmarked, no serial number, brand, model, company name, or caliber. The gun is all blank. It was placed in a .177 caliber box and that's how it was written up. It is however the .22 model. Comes with everything in the photos. T

[45flint]

David, I am afraid that your link doesn't work for me also.

The curious (suspicious) thing is that if I go to this item on American fleabay.com and carry out an advanced search for the seller, it comes up with nothing. This even though the seller claims to have 7276 sales to his credit, with a 100% positive rating! (I have checked the search using other sellers names and it works fine). I suspect this may have been scam and the seller does not exist, and fleabay has taken it down. Somehow indirect links like Danny's and Google still show the fake page. I could be wrong of course.

For those who are curious, this is the said fleabay item and the description:



Item description from the seller

This gun is from the 70's and has been sitting idle for the past 30 years. I did not and will not test it. If it is to be used just assume it needs a piston seal at the very least. There are some parts in the box, manual, paperwork, pellets, allen key, scope mount, documents, targets, etcThis gun has a bit of History to it. It was the Very First Hurricane Prototype. This was purchased from Beeman in the 90's. It is the very gun that went back and forth several times from Webley to Beeman while they were working out the details for production guns. Only after Dr. Beeman was satisfied did production begin. It is totally unmarked, no serial number, brand, model, company name, or caliber. The gun is all blank. It was placed in a .177 caliber box and that's how it was written up. It is however the .22 model. Comes with everything in the photos. T

Still up and the seller seems legit, has multiple items for sale and lots of recorded feedback. This forum blocks posting the bay website. From US its a normal entry?

[ccdjg]

Curiouser and curiouser.

Steve, I am going to American fleabay completely independently of this forum and everything works normally for other sellers and other items, but absolutely zilch when I put in this item number, or search for the seller's profile or seller's other items.

Is it just me or is it a scam? Could someone here in the UK put me out of my misery, and go to American fleabay.com and search with the item number 204679897129 please?

I will be very interested to know if you have any success.

Cheers,
John

[Muskett]

It's priced at what someone might pay for a Venom. Sometimes in the USA they pay more for something nice, as we do here where they are more common in the USA. Beeman has a strong following and Air Guns are taking off in the USA.
To me, who doesn't know the collectors details as some here, I think it's a little rich. Half that would be my guess, which is quite a premium anyhow.

Would I have one BSA VS2000, as in Holts, or five of these? Or one fairly nice Venom? I'd go for the rifles.

[Josie & John]

I must say I'm sceptical and don't see the seller's description as any kind of solid provenance. As Leonard Joe pointed out, had Dr Beeman been involved with the development of the Hurricane, you can bet he would have mentioned it in his own advertising.

With the price quoted, the seller sounds like a chancer to me.

John

[Troubledshooter]

I've received the following from my Webley contact who was involved with the development of the Hurricane:

The gun is not what we would call a prototype, it clearly has moulded parts.

It would have been sent to Beeman hoping for orders and he did have many thousands.

That it has no marking is probably to allow Beeman to decide what he wanted on the gun.

The gun is possibly the first Hurricane in the USA.

[Troubledshooter]

Here's a photograph of one of the Hurricane prototypes:

[Garvin]

I've received the following from my Webley contact who was involved with the development of the Hurricane:

The gun is not what we would call a prototype, it clearly has moulded parts.

It would have been sent to Beeman hoping for orders and he did have many thousands.

That it has no marking is probably to allow Beeman to decide what he wanted on the gun.

The gun is possibly the first Hurricane in the USA.

Thank you for enquiring David. That all makes perfect sense.

[Josie & John]

Here's a photograph of one of the Hurricane prototypes:

That looks like the pistols used in early Webley promotional material - I always thought the grips looked non standard, so thanks David.

John

[ashf9999]

I've received the following from my Webley contact who was involved with the development of the Hurricane:

The gun is not what we would call a prototype, it clearly has moulded parts.

It would have been sent to Beeman hoping for orders and he did have many thousands.

That it has no marking is probably to allow Beeman to decide what he wanted on the gun.

The gun is possibly the first Hurricane in the USA.

So, in the slightly loosest possible terms, it could be called a prototype - but only as far as Beeman marketed ones are concerned. For Webley it was an established (even if for not long) product.

[Hsing-ee]

Making out that it is a Beeman/Webley co-developed pistol like the Beeman/Weihrauch models like the R1 rifle gives it an American appeal that being simply an early sample of a new pistol doesn't.

I call foul.

[Garvin]

Making out that it is a Beeman/Webley co-developed pistol like the Beeman/Weihrauch models like the R1 rifle gives it an American appeal that being simply an early sample of a new pistol doesn't.

I call foul.

It's kind of appropriate that a Beeman gun should be sold with more than a pinch of marketing spin, exaggeration and flim flam.

[ashf9999]

Maybe one for David - did Beeman use the printed standard Webley boxes, albeit with some extra Beeman literature on the inside? Or were the boxes materially different?