Will BSA Ever Make a Springer That Challenges HW Again?

[Blackrider]

It's a shame Webley went tit's up as they where heading in the right direction, even if it was a bit late.

Too right Pete, too right !

[Phil Russell]

Maybe I am wrong but the name Gamo conjures up a gun at the cheap and cheerful end of the market; this impression being formed many years ago in my mindset and being hard to erase. In contrast, the name BSA conjured up an image of quality and reliability, an image that even now remains largely intact when viewed against other makes. Will my mindset ever change? Not sure but I think I will always think of Gamo as the cheap and cheerful partner of the BSA/Gamo coalition. Maybe this is sad.
Will BSA ever make a springer to challenge HW? I am sure they could but I think they would need to employ some very good marketing to overcome the current impression that HW are the superior brand ... assuming of course that the BSA newcomer was a good one. In these cases, public perception, fuelled by word of mouth, various fora etc can be so important in swaying the public purchasing patterns.
I remember when the Challenger was being lauded as a superb rifle with glowing reviews but somehow it never, as I remember, really took off ... correct me if I am wrong. Was this due to HW competition?
A little time ago I had a Supersport, a rifle I had tended to dismiss for some unknown reason but having got one at auction and 'sorted it' I thought it was superb. Similarly the Superstar ... another impulse auction buy which, after sorting (auction caution applies!) I thought was superb.
So ... could BSA do it? I think so but they would need to take on the opposition head on with regard to function, looks and overall heft of a new model. First impressions count a lot.
Cheers, Phil

[evert]

A BSA superstar with a sliding breech, 25mm piston and a Rekord type trigger and a good stock would be great.

But will it ever happen?

[ashf9999]

As said before, it’s down to economics, not ability or machining at BSA (unless they need to invest substantially in new machines?p to increase efficiency and reduce rejects?). They need to freedom to have a Venomesque influence like Webley had, but not make the same latter mistakes. BSA can make good barrels and good PCPs, but innovation originated from expertise long since left. Do they have the room or facilities to expand and make high-end springers? Isn’t their Armoury Road factory comparatively small compared to the likes of HW? If they allowed themselves to invest in R&D a bit more, take more care with QC, it could work wonders. Their accounts show a reasonable chunk of cash in the bank - I suppose it depends if Gamo would let them spend it.

[look no hands]

As said before, it’s down to economics, not ability or machining at BSA (unless they need to invest substantially in new machines?p to increase efficiency and reduce rejects?). They need to freedom to have a Venomesque influence like Webley had, but not make the same latter mistakes. BSA can make good barrels and good PCPs, but innovation originated from expertise long since left. Do they have the room or facilities to expand and make high-end springers? Isn’t their Armoury Road factory comparatively small compared to the likes of HW? If they allowed themselves to invest in R&D a bit more, take more care with QC, it could work wonders. Their accounts show a reasonable chunk of cash in the bank - I suppose it depends if Gamo would let them spend it.

Spot on.

[look no hands]

I know I keep banging on about this, for me I'd desperately love to see BSA produce a rifle that was perfect for the UK market and blew everything else outthe water, it's the patriotic part of me that wants to be able to stand on the white cliffs of Dover and taunt the Germans with not just a British built rifle but with others things like cars, but we all know that won't be happening, it'll be great to see a massive big up discussion on here, like we did with the 99 a few yearsago, I live in hope.

[TonyL]

The thing is, I think BSA play on their heritage and people new to the game buy a BSA believing it to be a good make but they soon realise they aren't anymore, which is a shame.

It's a shame Webley went tit's up as they where heading in the right direction, even if it was a bit late.

Agreed, Pete.

And also agreed on the Webleys. So sad that it all went tits up after belters like the Omega and Longbow.

[TonyL]

Maybe I am wrong but the name Gamo conjures up a gun at the cheap and cheerful end of the market; this impression being formed many years ago in my mindset and being hard to erase. In contrast, the name BSA conjured up an image of quality and reliability, an image that even now remains largely intact when viewed against other makes. Will my mindset ever change? Not sure but I think I will always think of Gamo as the cheap and cheerful partner of the BSA/Gamo coalition. Maybe this is sad.
Will BSA ever make a springer to challenge HW? I am sure they could but I think they would need to employ some very good marketing to overcome the current impression that HW are the superior brand ... assuming of course that the BSA newcomer was a good one. In these cases, public perception, fuelled by word of mouth, various fora etc can be so important in swaying the public purchasing patterns.
I remember when the Challenger was being lauded as a superb rifle with glowing reviews but somehow it never, as I remember, really took off ... correct me if I am wrong. Was this due to HW competition?
A little time ago I had a Supersport, a rifle I had tended to dismiss for some unknown reason but having got one at auction and 'sorted it' I thought it was superb. Similarly the Superstar ... another impulse auction buy which, after sorting (auction caution applies!) I thought was superb.
So ... could BSA do it? I think so but they would need to take on the opposition head on with regard to function, looks and overall heft of a new model. First impressions count a lot.
Cheers, Phil

As said before, it’s down to economics, not ability or machining at BSA (unless they need to invest substantially in new machines?p to increase efficiency and reduce rejects?). They need to freedom to have a Venomesque influence like Webley had, but not make the same latter mistakes. BSA can make good barrels and good PCPs, but innovation originated from expertise long since left. Do they have the room or facilities to expand and make high-end springers? Isn’t their Armoury Road factory comparatively small compared to the likes of HW? If they allowed themselves to invest in R&D a bit more, take more care with QC, it could work wonders. Their accounts show a reasonable chunk of cash in the bank - I suppose it depends if Gamo would let them spend it.

I know I keep banging on about this, for me I'd desperately love to see BSA produce a rifle that was perfect for the UK market and blew everything else outthe water, it's the patriotic part of me that wants to be able to stand on the white cliffs of Dover and taunt the Germans with not just a British built rifle but with others things like cars, but we all know that won't be happening, it'll be great to see a massive big up discussion on here, like we did with the 99 a few yearsago, I live in hope.

Agreed. And all excellent posts. It COULD be done. But probably never will. Now, if Gamo woke up and decided that they were going to alter the positioning of the BSA brand into a top-end, premium brand.....

[Blackrider]

As I see it, the Elephant in the room (and its a big 'ol Jumbo) is that PCP's are dominant in the airgun market and unless that changes, no manufacturer is going to risk producing a top-end springer. Also, as pointed out earlier the required tooling is not what it was and the number of dedicated airgun designers are sadly diminishing as are spring gun enthusiasts .

Right now Weihrauch do well to maintain a good range of quality spring guns, AA have two, BSA......well, I'll leave that one to you !

[Mark Palmer]

As much as I'd like to see it, it'll never happen, too much investment for too limited return, the recent budget will raise all manufacturing , distribution and retail costs for what will be a relatively niche product with limited sales appeal, same applies to the oft requested AA break barrel. The demand for a "reassuringly " expensive new product is very limited, but the demand for that product on the second hand/used market is high.... no one is going to produce a product for the second hand market!!

[Brad3]

I do not expect to see anything much from Gamo, not even something to match the average BSAs of the past like the Mercury
However, I wonder if there is any mileage in a new up-dated Airsporter, perhaps with a lapped tap.
The key is something different to what is around now.

[Anothermiss]

Who would trust BSA even if the did fetch one out? They've knocked out mediocre rifles for far too long. They've also advertised them as high quality. People have long memories and don't generally forget being bitten in the wallet too easily.
Magazine reviews are often biased so no one really trusts them too much.
Overcoming people's experiences and expectations would be a major hurdle and, for the most part, make the project a high risk/low gain one.

[look no hands]

I do not expect to see anything much from Gamo, not even something to match the average BSAs of the past like the Mercury
However, I wonder if there is any mileage in a new up-dated Airsporter, perhaps with a lapped tap.
The key is something different to what is around now.

Why would you want to go backwards and fit a tap, even if it has been expertly lapped, that's the main reason HW panned the arse off of every British rifle when they bought out the 77, nearly every British fixed barrel rifle had a tap at the time, it's only been Air Arms who have given them a good kicking by producing a better sliding breech, if BSA or even Webley had done a sliding breach rifle back then, then they may of had a chance of keeping up and also keeping their name intact, instead of being a laughing stock within the shooting community.

[Hsing-ee]

Why would you want to go backwards and fit a tap, even if it has been expertly lapped, that's the main reason HW panned the arse off of every British rifle when they bought out the 77, nearly every British fixed barrel rifle had a tap at the time, it's only been Air Arms who have given them a good kicking by producing a better sliding breech, if BSA or even Webley had done a sliding breach rifle back then, then they may of had a chance of keeping up and also keeping their name intact, instead of being a laughing stock within the shooting community.

To be fair BSA and Webley did try with the roller breech and the weird trap-loading on the Eclipse. Inefficient and somewhat annoying ways of getting a pellet into the breech.
Why they didn’t go for a sliding breech which isn’t a patented design I cannot understand. With the width of the RB2 cylinder being not far off a 16” naval cannon it could easily have accommodated a sliding breech.

Also, as demonstrated by the Chinese Lion, it’s probably far cheaper to make a fixed barrel sliding breech than any other kind of fixed barrel.

Weird.

[capt hindsight]

I know I keep banging on about this, for me I'd desperately love to see BSA produce a rifle that was perfect for the UK market and blew everything else outthe water, it's the patriotic part of me that wants to be able to stand on the white cliffs of Dover and taunt the Germans with not just a British built rifle but with others things like cars, but we all know that won't be happening, it'll be great to see a massive big up discussion on here, like we did with the 99 a few yearsago, I live in hope.

The 99, good point.

Why couldnt BSA have made the new meteor a gun to rival the 99?

Heavier guns are pretty well sown up by Weihrauch & AA, but quality lightweight springers are few and far between. Thats pretty much what I was hoping for with the Meteor, maybe a missed opportunity.