Pre-War Webley Senior - Slant Grip - Restoration Questions

[Pop-Can_Killer]

Hello, I'm new to the forums and happy with the warm welcome I've received so far.

As a Canadian living in France who spent 8 years living in Caversham / Reading, I must admit to a bit of regret that I didn't take advantage of my time in the UK to purchase a Webley Senior/Premier/MK1 air pistol whilst I was there.

Over here, they are quite dear where a good example will fetch up to 700 Euros!

There's a French site called Naturabuy (like guntrader, etc...) and I purchased a pre-war Senior for around 400 Euros. -Compared to what is available in the UK, the condition is in what the French would call 'Gros potential'!

I have a question concerning the state of the breach. It looks deformed to me and I'm hoping somebody here could confirm. Also, I'm not sure if trying to knock it back into place with a soft mallet and drift or in the jaws of a vise with suitable soft jaws would be a good idea. What I can say is that I had a bit of a struggle to remove the barrel catch assembly because it didn't clear the edges of the breach.





I'm also considering, without any polishing, to rust blue the frame since most of the original bluing is sadly absent. I worry this could be a devisive thing to do, but I'm trying to strike a balance between protecting the metal and making it look more as it was whilst also preserving the gun's history. Since I'm new, I'm open to thoughts on this.

Finally, do you guys have any tricks or tips on extracting / re-insterting the piston in a manner that minimises risk of damage to the phosphor/bronze o-ring whilst sliding against the tapped threads at the front of the compression tube?

Thank you in advance for your kind advice.

[Pop-Can_Killer]

and

[ashf9999]

That’s actually not too bad, so I wouldn’t necessarily be inclined to put it in a vice - but the choice is yours as soft-jaws won’t damage it (don’t overdo it though). It it’s causing the stirrup latch to bind, by all means ease the splaying a little.

When taken apart, you can use a flat blade screwdriver to slide the piston out - though it may be stiff. Remember to keep the trigger pulled to get the sear out the way. There’s not too much you can do re piston rings on threads, but I’d be inclined to just pull and push, rather than screw it round.

I can’t see most of the metalwork so can’t comment on the current blue, but if you’re confident to refinish it then by all means. Personally, as it’s pre-war, I’d try and leave it if it’s bearable and not too too bad. I have a couple of pre-war slant grip Seniors that I love to shoot that are best described as streaky-brown.

[archer24]

My favourite Senior, got to have a bit of signs of usage they’re coming up for 90 years old….

Be careful removing the piston, the sear ring is fragile.
I’ve had better luck with hot bluing over rust bluing.

[ashf9999]

Forgot to say, a goodly smear of 30W over the PB ring may facilitate reinserting the piston. Wiggle it to ease the piston back in. Unless you have access to a tiny piston-ring compressor.

[Vic Thompson]

Regarding the Barrel Seating Jaws and the "spread", I've had a go at straightening up Webleys with similar problems albeit some time ago. It's a straight forward process as long as one works gently, but from memory it's important to use some sort of insert inside the Seating Jaws when squeezing them together (I used my Bench Vice for doing so), as otherwise they deform into a curved shape and cause can seating problems in that the barrel gets past the opening of the Jaws but then binds a short way into them (and won't readily locate in its correct seating position). Also I used a vice with "hard" smooth Jaws after starting the job with Ally protector plates in order to try and preserve as best I could the smooth straight outside of the Barrel Seating Jaws Block (and ditto the inside of the Seating Jaws by used of the sized insert) in order to minimise distortion of the "Locating Ears".

Hope that all makes sense, but either way, JMHO.

Vic T

[Pop-Can_Killer]

Thanks a lot guys!! I managed to get it sorted. I had some mild steel bar stock very nearly the same diameter as the barrel. So, I used the vise with plates of aluminium placed just right and the bar stock inside the breech to support things. I'll take a photo tomorrow during daylight. It's subtle but now the barrel catch clears the side of the breech. Thank you Vic T. for suggesting the fix. It worked a treat.

archer24 - That Senior looks fantatic (compared to mine). Maybe some boiling flesh-eating stew will add some cheer to the man cave. I'll keep you posted with how that goes...as I'd love to get the results you've managed.

ashf9999 - you're right. I smeared a thick coat of moly (Hi-Slip Grease by SENTRY SOLUTIONS) on the threads and held my breath as I tried to keep the ring compressed as best I could.

[Pop-Can_Killer]

I wrote a lenghly reply thanking all of you in turn...but somehow it didn't take. Anyhoo, thanks a lot!!

[Pop-Can_Killer]

Here are pictures of my first attempt at rust bluing. I wasn't happy with the level of black nor with the evenness of the oxide layer.





I believe that I didn't take sufficient measures to keep grease and oil from contaminating the part.

[Pop-Can_Killer]

After stripping it back to white metal (citric acid + sodium bicarbonate & dish soap (a la 'Beyond Ballistics' YouTube videos)), I tried again with much more care about keeping oil and grease contamination out.





I didn't do any polishing of the base metal as I didn't want to destroy the gun's history.

I'm sure I could do better if I spread out the interval, but I must admit to a certain levelf of fatigue and impatience after about the 9th cycle. -Again, I used the protocols and methods described in the Beyond Ballistics YouTube channel and, crucially, Hydrogen peroxide to accelerate the rusting process.

I believe I've struck the right balance between keeping the gun's history whilst making it look nice. What do you guys think?

P.S. I didn't re-do the barrel from the first attempt. I was not confident I could knock out the linkage pins to detach the cocking linkage without damage. I suspect the trapped oil in those links was part of my contamination problem before. I may address the barrel seperately by way of burning the oil out at 260 Celcius for some time...but, to be honest, I'm not really minding the patina look on it all that much.

P.P.S. I have a spare barrel screw coming from airgunspares.com (the original screw from the previous owner was an M3!! *facepalm*)

[ashf9999]

I agree - looks fine and isn’t over restored at all. Good job.

[micky2]

Yes to me that is fine, and l would just keep wipeing it over with a oily rag.

[Pop-Can_Killer]

Thank you for the feedback. I'm relieved that my first foray into restoration hasn't caused more harm than good. :-)

[ogilkes]

That looks really good. Its honest and shows the patina, the history, of the pistol. Nice job. How is it shooting?

[Pop-Can_Killer]

Again, I didn't polish anything. After about 12 rusting / boiling cycles, I called it quits. I was OCD about grease and oil.

Having performed this process and unable to achieve a deeper shade of black, I can really appreciate why one of these guns in good nick with original factory bluing fetches such a princely sum.

@ogilkes, I think the gun fires with a lot more energy than I could have guessed. Somehow, the numbers on the Internet don't tell the whole story. It blew through a thick cardboard box, the paper stuffing inside and out the other side...firmly implanting the RWS Superdome Diablo 8.3 grain pellet into the drywall behind it. I'm fairly confident it wasn't dieseling. There's a lot of recoil and the trigger takes a whole lot of effort not to send the barrel left or right of target. I believe these are meant to be shot one-handed, but I must admit to cheating and using both hands to keep it on target.

I think having the Webley Premier in steel with the more refined trigger would be ideal. For now, I'm happy enough with it for plinking and the like. I'm due for a vacation to the UK in spring or summer. Hopefully, I can squirrel away enough funds to pick up a Premier while I'm visiting.