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Thread: The Lowest Ebb of Webley

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    The Lowest Ebb of Webley

    Was this the Hawk Mk III?

    No spring guide, piston rings instead of a seal, a wobbly barrel pin, trigger unit with a dangerous weakness... barely made 9 fpe in .22, breakable plastic sights, transfer port oversize ...

    While I am not a particular fan of the Webley Mk III underlever, this successor must have made the older rifle look like an absolute gem.

    I remember the Vulcan arriving in 1979 to much fanfare as a truly powerful British rifle, but they had not addressed many of the problems with the Hawk.

    In 1984 the curate's egg and rather expensive Webley Omega arrived, and another 20 years passed until the Webley Longbow was launched, according to many the best British break-barrel aside from the Air Arms ProElite.

    So from the death of the Mk III in 1975 it took Webley 29 years to finally 'beat' the German competition, before dying.

    Was the decision to make the cheap but awful Hawk Mk III the beginning of the end of Webley? Comparing one to a contemporary German model like an HW50 or HW35, or an Original Diana 35, it is really obvious that it is built down to a price and not up to a specification. This is not the case with the Longbow.
    Last edited by Hsing-ee; 19-12-2024 at 10:11 PM.

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    I had a Hawk mk2 with 177 and 22 barrels in the 70's, I do remember sometimes the trigger would not allow it to fire and then it would cock and be on a dangerously light hair trigger but I stuck with for year's until a BSA Mercury came my way>

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsing-ee View Post
    Was this the Hawk Mk III?
    No spring guide, piston rings instead of a seal, a wobbly barrel pin, trigger unit with a dangerous weakness... barely made 9 fpe in .22, breakable plastic sights, transfer port oversize ...
    The barrel pin/jaws work on the Vulcan if you just tight them up and dont abuse them.

    With a transfer port sleeve, O-rings in the piston grooves and a set of delrin guides it may be a winner?
    Been planning to do this on mine for a long time but never got around to it.
    Too many airguns!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsing-ee View Post
    Was this the Hawk Mk III?

    No spring guide, piston rings instead of a seal, a wobbly barrel pin, trigger unit with a dangerous weakness... barely made 9 fpe in .22, breakable plastic sights, transfer port oversize ...

    While I am not a particular fan of the Webley Mk III underlever, this successor must have made the older rifle look like an absolute gem.

    I remember the Vulcan arriving in 1979 to much fanfare as a truly powerful British rifle, but they had not addressed many of the problems with the Hawk.

    In 1984 the curate's egg and rather expensive Webley Omega arrived, and another 20 years passed until the Webley Longbow was launched, according to many the best British break-barrel aside from the Air Arms ProElite.

    So from the death of the Mk III in 1975 it took Webley 29 years to finally 'beat' the German competition, before dying.

    Was the decision to make the cheap but awful Hawk Mk III the beginning of the end of Webley? Comparing one to a contemporary German model like an HW50 or HW35, or an Original Diana 35, it is really obvious that it is built down to a price and not up to a specification. This is not the case with the Longbow.
    Yes, I think you're probably right, Alistair.

    I remember back when I was about 14. I had my Super Meteor. My friend, who lived two doors away, borrowed another friend's Hawk (Mark II, I think). It was totally standard and hadn't been messed with and almost new. It twanged like a banjo on coke. And then died. The spring had broken. Although my friend and I had worked on the odd Meteor at that point, working on that cowing Hawk, especially that fiddly trigger group, was an indoctrination to say the least. But we managed it. That put me off them for life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsing-ee View Post
    Was this the Hawk Mk III?

    No spring guide, piston rings instead of a seal, a wobbly barrel pin, trigger unit with a dangerous weakness... barely made 9 fpe in .22, breakable plastic sights, transfer port oversize ...

    While I am not a particular fan of the Webley Mk III underlever, this successor must have made the older rifle look like an absolute gem.

    I remember the Vulcan arriving in 1979 to much fanfare as a truly powerful British rifle, but they had not addressed many of the problems with the Hawk.

    In 1984 the curate's egg and rather expensive Webley Omega arrived, and another 20 years passed until the Webley Longbow was launched, according to many the best British break-barrel aside from the Air Arms ProElite.

    So from the death of the Mk III in 1975 it took Webley 29 years to finally 'beat' the German competition, before dying.

    Was the decision to make the cheap but awful Hawk Mk III the beginning of the end of Webley? Comparing one to a contemporary German model like an HW50 or HW35, or an Original Diana 35, it is really obvious that it is built down to a price and not up to a specification. This is not the case with the Longbow.
    My MK2 had piston rings too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyL View Post
    Yes, I think you're probably right, Alistair.

    I remember back when I was about 14. I had my Super Meteor. My friend, who lived two doors away, borrowed another friend's Hawk (Mark II, I think). It was totally standard and hadn't been messed with and almost new. It twanged like a banjo on coke. And then died. The spring had broken. Although my friend and I had worked on the odd Meteor at that point, working on that cowing Hawk, especially that fiddly trigger group, was an indoctrination to say the least. But we managed it. That put me off them for life.
    The Meteor was even more cheaply made than the Hawk, but the thing was efficient, simple and gave pretty good performance. It also was the right weight and handled really nicely, pointing where you looked. The design all made sense, even the heavy trigger was ideal for keeping youngsters and foolish adults safe.

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    I vaguely remember lusting after a Webley Hawk rifle,when I was in my lunch break at school.
    It was in the window of one of many shops in my home town (Barking) who sold airgun’s,fishing tackle etc back in the day (1975 ish). I eventually bought a Webley Vulcan mk1 ,in the early 80’s (still have it).
    Much to my embarrassment I never gave Webley a second thought in the years that followed.
    I didn’t realise how nice the Omega was and the Longbow and Tomahawk passed me by.
    I have since got some nice examples of the guns just mentioned.
    A fair few of us concentrated on the usual suspects Hw AA Bsa .
    A sad day when Webley closed its doors for the last time.
    Les..

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    What era were the Hawk Mk3's made?

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    Quote Originally Posted by capt hindsight View Post
    What era were the Hawk Mk3's made?
    1977-1979

    Hawks started in 1971.

    It wasn’t a great time for British manufacturing in general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by acmsarh View Post
    I had a Hawk mk2 with 177 and 22 barrels in the 70's, I do remember sometimes the trigger would not allow it to fire and then it would cock and be on a dangerously light hair trigger but I stuck with for year's until a BSA Mercury came my way>
    On mine, if you touched the trigger & decided not to shoot, then pushed the safety off, it would fire!

    Horrible device.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsing-ee View Post
    Was this the Hawk Mk III?

    No spring guide, piston rings instead of a seal, a wobbly barrel pin, trigger unit with a dangerous weakness... barely made 9 fpe in .22, breakable plastic sights, transfer port oversize ...

    While I am not a particular fan of the Webley Mk III underlever, this successor must have made the older rifle look like an absolute gem.

    I remember the Vulcan arriving in 1979 to much fanfare as a truly powerful British rifle, but they had not addressed many of the problems with the Hawk.

    In 1984 the curate's egg and rather expensive Webley Omega arrived, and another 20 years passed until the Webley Longbow was launched, according to many the best British break-barrel aside from the Air Arms ProElite.

    So from the death of the Mk III in 1975 it took Webley 29 years to finally 'beat' the German competition, before dying.

    Was the decision to make the cheap but awful Hawk Mk III the beginning of the end of Webley? Comparing one to a contemporary German model like an HW50 or HW35, or an Original Diana 35, it is really obvious that it is built down to a price and not up to a specification. This is not the case with the Longbow.
    I agree totally it was disasterous gun in more ways than one.
    I had the Mercury and a pal had his Hawk 3. The Mercury whipped it in every aspect. Outshooting it, but I did not like the gap at the breech where you could see the barrel, the straight trigger blade or the angular stock. The real clincher came when his trigger latching failed and bent is barrel. Thank goodness he wasn't injured.
    He upgraded to the soon to follow Vulcan but still not as good as the Mercury in my opinion. Chucked out some power though the Vulcan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laverdabru View Post
    On mine, if you touched the trigger & decided not to shoot, then pushed the safety off, it would fire!

    Horrible device.
    I once owned a 1911 that did that. it was very scary and I once almost shot the window by accident.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jorkie View Post
    I once owned a 1911 that did that. it was very scary and I once almost shot the window by accident.
    A South African friend of mine at college was handling her dad's 1911 in their livingroom and didn't check if there was up the spout. Result was a super expensive stereo amplifier in fragments and some very alarmed neighbours.
    Best not to allow teenagers access to loaded pistols.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsing-ee View Post
    A South African friend of mine at college was handling her dad's 1911 in their livingroom and didn't check if there was up the spout. Result was a super expensive stereo amplifier in fragments and some very alarmed neighbours.
    Best not to allow teenagers access to loaded pistols.
    Definitely!

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    Quote Originally Posted by evert View Post
    The barrel pin/jaws work on the Vulcan if you just tight them up and dont abuse them.

    With a transfer port sleeve, O-rings in the piston grooves and a set of delrin guides it may be a winner?
    Been planning to do this on mine for a long time but never got around to it.
    You'll get all that done, and the welds on the trigger housing will snap.
    A Hawk MkII was the first air rifle I ever owned, bought as a present for my 11th birthday. Just over a year later it had to go back to Webley for them to repair the trigger housing welds.
    The first rifle I bought with my own money was a new, old stock Hawk MkIII in .177, bought mail order from The Mart in Lowestoft. That too went back to Webley for the same fault, but it lasted 18 months.
    I still have both rifles. The MkIII still has all its packaging, the MkII lives in the MkIII packaging Webley put it in to send it back to me.
    At one time, I had a full set of Hawks, Mk1, all 4 variants of MkII, and MkIII Hawks in both calibres.
    I firmly believe that the Hawk killed Webley's reputation.
    The South of England has 2 good things, the M1 and the A1. Both will take you to Yorkshire.

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