Problems renovating Webley MKI Pistol

[barryeye]

Gentleman. I have just acquired today a Webley MKI air pistol. It has been stored in a damp garage for years and is in need of some TLC. I soaked it in CRC for two hours and then removed the .177 barrel. I then tried to remove the grips. I note that the screw slots are very narrow. Far too narrow for my set of square gunsmith screw drivers. The screws had already been buggered about so I took a standard screw driver with a tapered blade to them. The &*%$#$@#& things still would not move. I gave up on them and started to work on the rust with oil and fine wire wool. Results were far better then expected and although scratched I’d say I have 75% of the blue (?) left.
Questions.
1/ What do I have and how old is it.
Right side “Webley & Scott Ltd Birmingham 4 Webley Patents

Left side THE WEBLEY MKI
Made in England

Number on muzzle plug 193

2/ Any hints on removing the grip screws.

3/ I am going to need washers (I think). Where do I look?

4/ Were these pistols blued or painted?

5/ How do you tidy up old grip screw slots or can one get replacements?

6/ Should I attempt to remove the sliding barrel catch? It is working fine. I could just lubricate and leave it.

This pistol is never going to be in the collectors grade but deserves to be reborn. At some time in its life a cowboy has put it in a vice and tried to remove the rear plug. I know this is common but this idiot put a LOT of effort in to it and still failed of course.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Barry.

[Garvin]

Date is 1946-58 according to Hiller's Air Pistols.

Lots of dismantling lubricant on the screws or they might shear off.

Parts from www.chambersgunmakers.co.uk or John Knibbs, or Midland Spares. I think it shares internals with other Webley pistols - an expert will be along in a minute.....

The pistol was blued not painted.

Good luck.

[barryeye]

Thanks Garvin. It is P.M. here and I am just about to go to bed. I have soaked the grip screws in CRC again and will give them a gentle try in about 20 hours. I am a little concerned that the chemicals may react with the grips.
Thanks for Chambers address. Looks like they have all that I may need. After my first post I removed the muzzle plug. I note that the main spring was not compressed when I removed the plug. Does this indicate that it is worn or is this the norm?
All is clean and bright inside but the washer has seen better days. The washer where the barrel closes is missing so that will also need to be replaced.
I note that the rear sight is only adjustable for elevation. No windage?
The trigger appears okay. I am not happy about stripping that so I think I'll just lubricate it well.

Thanks again.
Barry

[felix gunner]

Warm water, toothpaste and an old toothbrush works well on the grips. The pins for the linkages are easy to drift out - I use (the 'wrong' end) of an old HSS drill bit that can be matched to the exact diameter. I did get spares (pins, spring, pivot bolt etc) from Hiller but I think he has sold up now.

Trigger is easy to strip - just drift out the two pins on the trigger guard and then the one on the trigger. Drift back in same side they came out.

[Rob M]

The Mk1s had leather washers which are easily made if you can get some sole leather from a friendly cobbler or shoe repair place.

Advice on making leather washers here:

http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115108

You may be able to make a new barrel seal with the info above too.

If the spring doesn't push the muzzle plug out by about 1-1/2 inches when you unscrew it it's time for a new spring! It's easy to remove the barrel catch, you just need a small pin to drift out the pin underneath, watch out for the little spring that bears on the catch. You may find that spring is not powerful enough to propel a pellet all the way out of the barrel. If you should jam a pellet in, make sure that you use a wooden dowel or a brass rod to push it out, don't be tempted to use steel or other hard metals that might damage the barrel.

Re: the trigger parts, it's well worth taking them out for a clean, they may be full of dust or grit that will wear them away in the long run. Like the chap said, use a drift or a punch to push the pins out. The triggers on these are simple and reliable, reassembly is easy.

It's well worth getting some modern airgun lubricants for these old Webleys, they really benefit from having Molybdenum paste (Abbey Moly GN Paste) or Dri-Slide rubbed into the inside of the cylinder, the inside and outside of the piston, and the spring guide. The Spring will benefit from an application of Moly grease, or a liberal spray with motorcycle chain wax (stops spring twang). The trigger will benefit from GN paste being rubbed into the trigger slot, all over the trigger parts (especially the sear) and onto the pins before refitting them. GN Paste should also be applied to the cocking slot too, it will be smoother to cock if you can do this.

These are great little pistols and can be nice to shoot if the piston head is good and the other parts are lubricated nicely! When resurrecting a pistol like this it is a good idea to strip completely and get it as clean as possible, dust and grit are the airguns enemies!

[barryeye]

Some very good advice there Rob. I have a busy weekend comming up but I hopw to get some jobs done on the pistol.
Still having a problem with the grip srews.
Thanks very mucH. You and Felix have convinced me to have a go at the trigger and catch.

Barry

[Rob M]

You won't regret it, the triggers are quite simple. If you can get some Moly GN Paste, treat it with care, it's not bad for your skin particularly but it is sticky and will leave dark grey marks on clothes and furniture!

With the grip screws, you'redoing the right thing soaking them in penetrating oil. Something else that might help is to put a well-fitting screwdriver in the slot, then tap the screwdriver carefully on the top a few times, if you're lucky this might just shift the screw enough to break the seal. Some recommend trying to break the adhesion by tightening the screw a few degrees prior to loosening it, which may help. It's also possible to buy small 'impact' screwdrivers nowadays too, the suddenness of the torque when you tap it with a hammer can help break the adhesion.

As you have already said though, you want to be careful not to shear the screws off. If you do though, don't despair, any gunsmith or engineer can drill out the broken screw and tap in a fresh thread for you, the screws might not be original if this happens but it will probably have little bearing on the value of the pistol!

What sort of condition is the rifling in?

[barryeye]

I’d say the rifling is very good. The smallest cleaning rod I have is .22 so I might have to make a pull through just to give it a clean. Most of the rust and dirt appears to be external but better safe the sorry. I have a busy weekend coming up so I might have to put this project on hold for a few more days. I doubt that it will do those grip screws any harm to soak a bit longer.
In anticipation what kind of performance could one expect from this pistol when cleaned, lubricated and fitted with new spring and washers?
Barry

[Rob M]

In terms of power, anything between 2 and 3.5 foot-pounds, the accuracy will vary from pistol to pistol depending on the state of the barrel, consistency of the action, wear on the barrel pivot etc., but you should be able to consistently hit matchboxes at ten metres, maybe a bit better if you can get pellets that suit the barrel and put in some practice! My Mk1 is very hold-sensitive, but if I persevere with it and practice for a bit I can put all four of the targets away on one of these:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=217254

from about five metres! Hope that's accurate enough for you! These aren't match accurate pistols, but are serious fun to shoot!

[barryeye]

Looks like a fun target Rob. They sound plenty accurate for me. Thanks.
I have a Premier and a rifled Junior. I guess that performance wise this should be in the middle of them.
I will need a new spring and washers. I checked out:
www.chambersgunmakers.co.uk
Saw what I thought was a list of MKI parts but after a second visit I am not so sure. They mention Senior and Premier MKI and MKII. I think the MKs refer to the Premier. The illustration is MKI. ???
I'm puzzled. Don't want to stuff up an order from the other side of the planet.
Barry

[felix gunner]

Anyone have any idea what the actual length of an original Senior spring should be? I have two Seniors - one has a a spring an good 3/4 inch longer than the other. I have no idea if one/both/neither are original.

Agree with everything above, these pistols are an absolute joy to strip, clean and shoot. And with care the accuracy is excellent.

Barry, whatever you do with the grip screws do mind the grips - they are very fragile and impossible to buy these days.

And do have a look at this topic too. In post #8 there is a useful link with stripping info etc:

http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178185