HW35 The Collectable Weihrauch

[mallyally]

a lovely early ( two hole ) HW 35 in target sports today in REALLY good nick for £150

[T 20]

From what I can gather an easy rifle to work on and consistent once allowed to settle down. However, difficult to guarantee to get a desired result from the work. So smooth them out and live with the result.

Venom used to sell the HW35 in FAC form at 15ftlbs

Norman May found that the HW35 would run at 15ftlbs when they were experimenting on operation Vixen.

To the best of my limited Knowledge on the HW35, all of them had a 30mm cylinder bore and about a 65mm piston stroke, and a 2.8mm transfer port diameter.

From my experiments I found that my 35 will run at 13.5 ftlbs in standard form (65mm stroke) when tuned.
I have now de-stroked this gun down to a 55mm stroke which gives 11.5 ftlbs, the mainspring in this gun has absolutely no preload prior to fitting the trigger housing.


The build quality of the HW35 for a gun designed in 1939 is unbelievable and apart from the breach shims, easy to strip and rebuild.
That's probably why they are still in production, and long may they live.


All the best Mick

[bigglesworth]

If you look at the very early Venom ads when they still worked out of Trapshot of Lye they claimed up to 14.5ftlbs dependant on calibre for the 35. I have never seen one do anything like this, 10.5 to 12ftlb yes but a further 2.5ftlbs must have been achieved by lengthening the piston stroke, of course going this far you may as well get an 80. I think thats good advice to smooth them out and be happy with the end result.

I've just bought what will be my third 35 off here and can't wait for it to arrive.

My 0.177 KLS settled down at 10.9 ft/lbs with Superdomes,it refuses to go over 11 ft/lbs, but who cares? ;it`s accurate and consistant AND I WANT ANOTHER ONE!!

[T 20]

If you look at the very early Venom ads when they still worked out of Trapshot of Lye they claimed up to 14.5ftlbs dependant on calibre for the 35. I have never seen one do anything like this, 10.5 to 12ftlb yes but a further 2.5ftlbs must have been achieved by lengthening the piston stroke, of course going this far you may as well get an 80. I think thats good advice to smooth them out and be happy with the end result.

I've just bought what will be my third 35 off here and can't wait for it to arrive.

Hi coburn

I think you'll find that when Venom first advertised the HW35 in FAC format there was no HW80 to play with.

The HW35 will easily produce 15 ftlbs with an increased stroke and does so with great accuracy.
Like I posted earlier I have now reduced the stroke on my 35 by 10mm to keep it below 12 ftlbs.

All the best Mick

[coburn]

Yes T20 I remember reading in AGW an article on Venom that Pope and Handcock met tru an airgun club and both had been tuning 35's, pooled their resources and formed Venom.

Out of interest what are the diffences in stroke between a 35 and 80.

[T 20]

Yes T20 I remember reading in AGW an article on Venom that Pope and Handcock met tru an airgun club and both had been tuning 35's, pooled their resources and formed Venom.

Out of interest what are the diffences in stroke between a 35 and 80.

The HW35 with leather washer had a 65mm stroke.
The maximum available stroke length in a standard HW35 is 71mm
The HW80 had a stroke of 83mm.
Some of the early 80's imported were found to be producing 16to17ftlb's as standard.

Looking at those figures it's just occured to me that you get about 1 ftlb for every 5mm of stroke.

The HW80 was mainly intended for the American market were there are no restrictions on power. The HW80 came about due to the collaberation between Dr Robert Beeman and Weihrauch, as did the HW45 pistol.

The earliest reference to Hancock and Pope that I have is a photograph of them from an old Airgunworld, out on a shooting trip with Jim Tyler (BTDT).


All the best Mick

[I. J.]

, out on a shooting trip with Jim Tyler (BTDT).

'With' Jim Tyler or 'after' Jim Tyler - Woaded One shooting.

Thanks for the info on strokes Mick. Very informative for future reference.

ATB
Ian

[T 20]

'With' Jim Tyler or 'after' Jim Tyler - Woaded One shooting.

Thanks for the info on strokes Mick. Very informative for future reference.

ATB
Ian

Hi Ian

The thought of trying to hunt down Jim Tyler has conjured up memories in my head of when the Goodies tried to capture Rolf Harris.

Of course it would be highly unsporting to try stalk Jim now as like many of us old boys in the collectable section the smell of Ralgex and the slight wiff of stale waz would give his position away.

Glad you liked the stroke length info.

It may be that the stroke length of the nylon headed piston in the HW35 is shorter than the Leather sealed one.

Now all I have to work out is why the HW77 with a lower swept volume than the HW35 is capable of 18 ftlbs.

All the best Mick

[Muskett]

While we have some tune experts on here, and many people might tune up their 35's and end up the wrong side of the ft/lbs law. How best to restrain the stroke length and fine tune the power after a good polish and tar tune up? Does it need some real engineering or is there a really easy DIY way?

[T 20]

Hi Muskett
Take it from me I'm no tuning expert but I'll tell you what I know.
The stroke length on a 35 is fixed, unless you machine the piston at both ends.

To get 15ftlbs from a 35 involves machining a different piston head altering the piston as above and machining up a top hat piston weight and honing the cylinder out to be perfectly true. As you can see this situation isn't going to occure during a normal tune up.

During a normal strip and tune I would take Jim Tyler's article in the February issue of Airgunworld as your guide as he give good advice on how to stay legal.

The only special lubricant I buy is Silicon oil for the piston head, for spring grease I have been using JCB hammer grease (I kid you not) for years, it's a very thick Molly grease and it tends to stay where you put it.

I have sent you an article by John Bowkett via e mail Muskett, I hope you find it interesting, the work he did on the HW77 is usable in tuning the 35.

All the best Mick

[coburn]

According to Parcel Force my latest 35 is sitting at their Mitcham Depot for delivery today can't wait. (given my luck its still bound to go missing)

Anyway 77's giving 18ftlbs with a smaller swept volume than the 35.

I know they have a smaller diameter cylinder, 25mm? but when I stripped one years ago the bloody spring was about a mile long, could its secret be in the spring pre load. Beeman also claims that along with the 80 the 77 was his creation but mentions disapointment that it never caught on in the States like the R1/80. As an interesting fact the R1 was developed first, HW agreed to market their own version the 80. However Beeman had decided on a longer more rounded stock for the R1. This held up production because the blanks necessary were not immediately available. This allowed HW to have the 80 on the market before Beeman had the R1 out.

[Muskett]

T20
Might have to find a copy of Airgun World; good excuse as I only buy one once a year.

Wow; the John Bowkett article is major engineering. Many thanks for sending it to me. Very interesting, and for those who don't have a copy you really need some serious engineering equipment and know how to do the work.

In truth other than a strip, clean, de-burr and tar and moly thats about me. However, I think a fully worked HW77 might be in the offing as it would have the nostalgia and accuracy that I want. Something for me to think about.

[coburn]

I remember Terry Robb doing a similar thing on the 80 in a publication called "Power without Powder". Does anyone have a copy?

[T 20]

I remember Terry Robb doing a similar thing on the 80 in a publication called "Power without Powder". Does anyone have a copy?

Hi Coburn

Terry Robb's book (can't remember the title) was a bit vague to say the least.

Power without Powder was written by Mike Wade of Mike Wade engineering.
I had a couple of long chats by phone with Mike in about 1985 when ordering his book and when ordering some parts (nice chap).
The book is a step by step guide to tuning the HW80 to about 21 ftlb's, and is a very good read.
Power output for a HW35 is shown at 13to15ftlbs for a .22" gun with a honed air cylinder and enlarged transfer port running a PTFE piston head and stronger spring.
Power output for a HW80 is shown at 19to20ftlbs for a .22" gun.
Power output for a HW85 is shown at 17to18ftlbs for a .22" gun.
Power output for a HW77 is shown at 16to18ftlbs for a .22" gun.
These outputs are not in the book, they are taken from the order form Mike sent me for his Viper Power Products.



Hi Muskett

Glad you liked the Bowkett Article on the HW77.
I'm going to have my two 77K's burried with me.

All the best Mick

[coburn]

Hi T20 might need some help on 35 tuning. My 35K arrived yesterday and looks to be in good nick. Its been unused for a while and is very "dry" lube wise.

I've fitted an Anschutz Dioptre and it shoots RWS Superdomes into one ragged hole at 12 metres however over the Chrono after a squirt of SM40 in the transfer port I get a mere 520fps with Superdomes and 580fps with Hobby. Not great for .22.

I intend to strip, inspect and lube but can anyone tell me what length a std 35 spring should be?. Also I remember many people on here writing that HW springs of late were fairly mediocre is that true?