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Thread: Antique Firearm collecting

  1. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Seaford, Sussex, UK
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    4,542
    The iron depends on how far back you go and the vext question, when did they start puddling?

    Dud Dudley was producing many grades of cast iron some of which lent themselves to 'fining'. But did he puddle?

    You can refine iron by literally bashing the cr@p out of it. Presumably how they made currency bars, cast iron being no good for sword or plough share.

    Puddling produces almost pure iron with a slag inclusion, working the puddled iron so the slag becomes long and thin and not localised makes wrought iron which is perfect for the smithy.

    The Enfields went on one stage being made from Marshall's iron, almost certainly crucible steel. Marshalls factory in B'ham has been excavated. Crucible steel involves taking puddled iron rods, case hardening them to add carbon then remelting to even the carbon content through the mix. Pre-Bessemer the remelting was exceedingly tricky because it is only the impurities that get the melting point down. Crucible steel made excellent razors, no imperfections to interrupt a fine edge.

    Then came cartridge guns and I completely lose interest, quite understand why you might insist on proofing and never trust that new fangled stuff.

    Personally I like damascus iron, only problem with damascus is that it doesn't take to rifling very well. That's why my deer rifle has a damascus outer over a tape wound core

  2. #47
    Jim McArthur is offline Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    New Orleans, Louisiana
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    5,887
    Quote Originally Posted by mjohno View Post
    Jim,
    You would certainly have a lot more choice your side of the pond.
    If you get chance pick up the two books written about the Winchester slide-actions by Schwing.
    Thanks, I'll look into those.

    Jim
    UBC's Police Pistol Manager
    "Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    hull
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim McArthur View Post
    Thanks, I'll look into those.

    Jim
    Jim,
    The two books have been re-printed and combined into a single volume paperback.

  4. #49
    Jim McArthur is offline Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
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    Sep 2007
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    5,887
    Sounds even better!

    Jim
    UBC's Police Pistol Manager
    "Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    bedford
    Posts
    1,578
    hi all, just came across this thread and and enjoyed reading all the posts.nice to know there are so many like minded folk about.been collecting now for 30yrs [im what jim calls a packrat] and my collection including firearms, shotguns ,antiques and airguns is now into three figures .i really shoudnt be allowed out with money in my pocket!!!!cannot really comment about the exploding martini henry only to say that i agree that it was better it blew up at the proof house than in someones hands.my club organised a tour of brum proof house a few years ago .very interesting place ,go if you get the chance.i usually have an antique longarm on ticket and rotate it for another on renewal .i have a schmit-rubin.m1889 on at the moment ....greasemonkey
    Last edited by greasemonkey; 28-08-2009 at 03:13 PM.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Chelmsford
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    801

    Birmingham proof house

    Hi. Greasemonkey
    If I had known that you were going to Birmingham proof house I would have got you to lay a wreath to my old martini henry as it pass away there.
    It is still doing service though as it is in the Black Museum of the Essex Police!
    Do any of you know where I can get an image of Henry Nock, in the form of a photograph of a portrait of him?
    I have tried everywhere I can think of, all the proof houses, army & navy museums, royal armouries and Scotlands Edinburgh museum, just about all the art and portrait galleries in the UK, the guildhall in the city, Wilkinson sword which is still going is the company he started, you would think that as he was proof master at the London proof house there would be an image of him somewhere.
    Everyone I contacted was very helpful but an image doesn't appear to exist
    Any ideas where I can try next?
    Jeff

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Chelmsford
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    801

    Photographs of Martini Henry proof failure


  8. #53
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Waikanae Beach New Zealand (why-can-eye)
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    244
    Thanks for those pictures Jeff. You are indeed a wise/lucky man. That would have hurt.

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Chelmsford
    Posts
    801

    My India Pattern Musket (Brown Bess 3rd model)

    Hi. Collectors
    My India Pattern made by Robert Wheeler, Tower private proof marks, Crown over 99 (inspectors mark or date?) so probably a private purchase by an officer, lock engraved on tail with Wheeler, Crown over GR under pan, Swan neck flintcock.
    Some of its furniture is none standard, side plate is the same as the Baker rifle, trigger guard and butt plate are both different from the regular India pattern musket.
    Purchased out of New England USA could it be a musket that was captured by US forces during the 1812 war between USA and Canada?
    What puzzles me is that the stock has been branded any suggestions as to what the brand means is it the regiment maybe 1st 88th who are the Rangers, the date, the place?
    A few photographs at available at:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/fronteria/
    My webley service rifle photographs are also on there.
    Regards Jeff

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Moreton in Marsh
    Posts
    819
    Quote Originally Posted by Fronteria View Post
    Hi. Collectors
    My India Pattern made by Robert Wheeler, Tower private proof marks, Crown over 99 (inspectors mark or date?) so probably a private purchase by an officer, lock engraved on tail with Wheeler, Crown over GR under pan, Swan neck flintcock.
    Some of its furniture is none standard, side plate is the same as the Baker rifle, trigger guard and butt plate are both different from the regular India pattern musket.
    Purchased out of New England USA could it be a musket that was captured by US forces during the 1812 war between USA and Canada?
    What puzzles me is that the stock has been branded any suggestions as to what the brand means is it the regiment maybe 1st 88th who are the Rangers, the date, the place?
    A few photographs at available at:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/fronteria/
    My webley service rifle photographs are also on there.
    Regards Jeff
    Nice pictures Jeff. I have never seen branding like this before. It's usual to see storage numbers etc but this is very interesting. They certainly didn't want their muskets going missing! If you have no joy here, one of the magazines I subscribe to has a Q&A section which I am confident will answer your question. Otherwise, you could always try a cheeky email to a good online dealer like West Street (great chaps) who may be able to help. By the way, the over and under pistol I own by Wheeler can be found here...

    http://s382.photobucket.com/albums/o...view=slideshow

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