For Emsill...BSA prewar sights I.D. and info with photos and dims..

[edbear2]

Hi there, just spotted your question, the following may help some, but is by no means complete, as I have seen / found many odd ones!....ie. cadet and airsporter units attached to prewar guns......if original, this may help a little;

BSA / Lincoln early guns had small, low profile sights, with the foresight generally being 0.450 in height, and with a "double" dovetail effect. Rearsight casting stamped "Pat. 460143" (as the later ones were too).

Rear dovetail widths on all patterns of sights run around 0.425-430" in my experience.

These front Lincoln / BSA "first pattern" foresights share the dovetail width of approx 0.274" with the later improved guns, and you sometimes see Lincolns / "The BSA rifle" early guns with these later foresights...they fit, but the cut-away for the sight base is exposed.

Improved guns had a larger version of the very early sight, this was 0.765" wide as opposed to 0.625 on the early guns, the vertical height of the base was basically the same though.

Apparently, around 1908, BSA were making a single shot rimfire rifle, and the larger, sturdy rearsight from this was used (possibly in modified form) on some of the .25 45.5" Improved guns.....this sight then was fitted to all the post WW1 Standard models, and possibly to some late Pre WW1 guns....I do not have an example, so cannot say for sure.

This rearsight (left) is much heavier in construction than the Improved sights, and used a coil spring to tension the insert, rather than the earlier, fragile stamped flat spring.

Also, Improved rear sight inserts are "L" section from above, and Standard "H" section.

Occasionally, one may come across a standard type rearsight, with graduations for the rimfire rifle it was intended for...I cannot believe the factory would do this, so maybe a period replacement?

Standard rearsights were graduated according to the pattern of gun they were fitted to, so a 45.5" gun will have 50 yards, a Light pattern 30 yards etc.

Foresights......Improved guns had several heights of foresight....they were all test fired at the factory, and perhaps this is why......or maybe because some guns I have will only zero at bell target range with a fine sight picture, you could specify a higher foresight for this discipline.....again, another mystery (standard unit to left in this pic).

Short answer........Improved front sights have a 0.274" (ish) dovetail, and a height between 0.450" and 0.520".

Standard front sights have a 0.384" (ish) dovetail, and a height (normally) of 0.550"

Of course Standard in this context relates to post WW1 guns...at some time there will have possibly been a stage in production when old High front sights may have been used up....ie. The Improved Model D morphed into the Standard in a bit of a messy way, with some guns having the all wooden stock (ie. no butt plate, but the small oval trap), standard sights, but a roll impressed "improved model D" air chamber as they were built from old stock, apparently this went on till 1919/20.

All the above is from stuff I have personally encountered / measured, and from checking J.K.'s book for timelines etc.......believe me, this is far from a complete answer, but should help some.

Regards, Ed

[Binners]

Who needs reference books, when we have 'Gentlemens Corner' and threads like this...

I print these off, staple them together and when I get 50 pages, I flog em on D'bay as 1st editions

[Josie & John]

Very good thread Ed and excellent illustrations.

The SMLE of the same period could be obtained with several different sizes of foresight and the numbers on these related to the height (in Imperial measurements) of the tip of the foresight to the centre of the bore. Could be the various numbers on BSA Air Rifles mean the same thing?

There are three specific patterns of backsight that BSA underlevers from 1905 to 1939 were fitted with. The First Pattern was only encounterd on the earliest rifles and had the small adjustment wheel. The second pattern was called the No10 by BSA and had a larger diameter wheel. They resemble an old "Cash Register" in profile. These were fitted to rifles made up to 1914.

The final Third pattern was the sight first fitted in 1919 and which remained the standard unit on post WW1 rifles. This is the sight on the left and top in Eddie's pics. This Third Pattern (I'm using italics as the reference to patterns is my own and not BSA's) has been encountered on pre 1914 rifles but I suspect in these cases, the sights are replacements. The Third Pattern was also fitted to the BSA No2 .22 Rimfire as Eddie has already said. The 1921 AG Parker catalogue describes the sight as being adjustable up to 200 yards and other than the ranges marked on the sight, it is identical to the unit fitted to the air rifle.

One "spanner in the works" to look out for is the inevitable Cadet major sight that can be made to fit a BSA underlever but is not correct to a pre war rifle of course.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,
John

[Binners]

Come on Lakey... Might as well go for a 'Win Treble'

[inproved]

Hi Ed...

Superb ....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Regard's

Inproved...Steve...

[Nitro-Express]

Brilliant Eddie! Thanks for last Thursday, by the way.

One thing that occurs to me. One hundred years ago, indeed up until the late 1950's, .22 rimfire sights were calibrated up to two hundred yards, and yet today we regard a .22LR as a 75 yard rabbit basher, or up to a hundred yards under exceptional (favourable) circumstances. Strange how ideas change.

[dogsbody]

Great stuff Ed
If a new edition of Knibb's book ever comes off the press you'll have to do a review!
atb
dogsbody