Brown bess

[Pigeon sniper]

hi
Can you own a brown bess on an sgc and fire a single ball from it or does that require a section 1 license as it is a single projectile?
These laws confuse me lol
Cheers
Pigeon

[Voodoo]

hi
Can you own a brown bess on an sgc and fire a single ball from it or does that require a section 1 license as it is a single projectile?
These laws confuse me lol
Cheers
Pigeon

A solid one ounce .71 projectile ! You need an F.A.C with a slot for a .75 Muzzle Loading Rifle (this is the bore size)

[enfield2band]

hi
Can you own a brown bess on an sgc and fire a single ball from it or does that require a section 1 license as it is a single projectile?
These laws confuse me lol
Cheers
Pigeon

You can fire a single projectile with your Brown Bess on a SGC if you are using it at a club.
This applies to all smoothbore muzzleloading rifles, antique and reproduction, on SGC.
Smoothbore muzzleloading pistols, antique or reproduction, and muzzleloading rifles with rifled barrels, antique or reproduction, are Section 1.

[TA6319]

I belong to a club and shoot a .50 Armisport smoothbore with solid ball on SGC with no problems at all. It can be accurate to about 50 yards

[tim56]

couple of guys shoot charlaville (excuse the spelling) muskets and a 2 band smooth bore on shot gun certs, my rifled 2 band is on sect 1.
Tim

[tacfoley]

There ya go - simple - rifled = section 1 FAC, smooth = shotgun certificate.

Even I can understand that.

tac

[IanG]

There ya go - simple - rifled = section 1 FAC, smooth = shotgun certificate.

Even I can understand that.

tac

Not quite so simple i'm afraid. As although a smooth bore gun is classed as a shotgun, if it is used with ammunition containing five ball or less it becomes a section 1 firearm requiring a firearms certificate. All guns firing single projectiles (except air) are firearms.
"All single bulleted ammunition, for example solid slug, spherical ball or projectiles for birdscaring equipment, is subject to the requirement for a firearm certificate" extract from 'firearms guidance to police 2002'

Ian

[enfield2band]

Not quite so simple i'm afraid. As although a smooth bore gun is classed as a shotgun, if it is used with ammunition containing five ball or less it becomes a section 1 firearm requiring a firearms certificate. All guns firing single projectiles (except air) are firearms.
"All single bulleted ammunition, for example solid slug, spherical ball or projectiles for birdscaring equipment, is subject to the requirement for a firearm certificate" extract from 'firearms guidance to police 2002'

Ian

HI,
I think you are confusing the issue slightly. What you quote is relevant to shotguns with a self contained cartridge.
Smoothbore muzzloading arms, antique and reproduction, do not come into the same category.
Smoothbore muzzleloaders only require an FAC Section 1 to fire a single projectile if they are used at any place other than an approved shooting ground. ie over land for sporting purposes.

Atb.

[steve medlock]

HI,
Smoothbore muzzleloaders only require an FAC Section 1 to fire a single projectile if they are used at any place other than an approved shooting ground. ie over land for sporting purposes.

Atb.

I think it would be quite useful if the source for that could be quoted as well so that it (and any other legal advice) can be easily verified.

Steve.

[enfield2band]

I think it would be quite useful if the source for that could be quoted as well so that it (and any other legal advice) can be easily verified.

Steve.

Have a look at this link. It is the best I can do for now.

http://www.mlagb.com/cgi-bin/forum/Y...num=1180682940

[IanG]

HI,
I think you are confusing the issue slightly. What you quote is relevant to shotguns with a self contained cartridge.
Smoothbore muzzloading arms, antique and reproduction, do not come into the same category.
Smoothbore muzzleloaders only require an FAC Section 1 to fire a single projectile if they are used at any place other than an approved shooting ground. ie over land for sporting purposes.

Atb.

Hi
There is no confusion as there is no distinction in current firearms law between muzzle loaders and conventional firearms, except for pistols - where muzzle loading pistols are exempted from the minimum length requirement (ie under 30cm barrel length becomes section 5 - Prohibited otherwise it is section 1 requiring a FAC ).
Section 1-Subsection 1 of the firearms acts clearly describes what constitutes a firearm and a shotgun with no specific reference to ammunition.
Although Subsection 4 Exempts "(a)cartridges containing five or more shot, none of which exceeds ·36 inch in diameter;" from requiring a FAC.

Section 57 describes "the expression “ammunition” means ammunition for any firearm and includes grenades, bombs and other like missiles, whether capable of use with a firearm or not, and also includes prohibited ammunition." and so does not make any reference to 'self contained cartridges' as distinct from any other.
It also states "the expression “firearm” means a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged"

Even the MLAGB commented that it was a recommendation that muzzle loading smoothbore firearms firing solid ball be used on approved ranges even though it is not enshrined in current law but simply good practice from a safety standpoint.

So my original post recommendations still stand:

Smoothbore = SGC - BUT when used with single slug ammunition = FAC

"All single bulleted ammunition, for example solid slug, spherical ball or projectiles for birdscaring equipment, is subject to the requirement for a firearm certificate" extract from 'firearms guidance to police 2002'

Ian

[enfield2band]

Hi
There is no confusion as there is no distinction in current firearms law between muzzle loaders and conventional firearms, except for pistols - where muzzle loading pistols are exempted from the minimum length requirement (ie under 30cm barrel length becomes section 5 - Prohibited otherwise it is section 1 requiring a FAC ).
Section 1-Subsection 1 of the firearms acts clearly describes what constitutes a firearm and a shotgun with no specific reference to ammunition.
Although Subsection 4 Exempts "(a)cartridges containing five or more shot, none of which exceeds ·36 inch in diameter;" from requiring a FAC.

Section 57 describes "the expression “ammunition” means ammunition for any firearm and includes grenades, bombs and other like missiles, whether capable of use with a firearm or not, and also includes prohibited ammunition." and so does not make any reference to 'self contained cartridges' as distinct from any other.
It also states "the expression “firearm” means a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged"

Even the MLAGB commented that it was a recommendation that muzzle loading smoothbore firearms firing solid ball be used on approved ranges even though it is not enshrined in current law but simply good practice from a safety standpoint.

So my original post recommendations still stand:

Smoothbore = SGC - BUT when used with single slug ammunition = FAC

"All single bulleted ammunition, for example solid slug, spherical ball or projectiles for birdscaring equipment, is subject to the requirement for a firearm certificate" extract from 'firearms guidance to police 2002'

Ian

I typed a long reply to this with quotes from the Firearms Act.
The internet timed out and logged me off and erased my reply. I am not typing it again.

Try phoning your FEO and see what they say.

Damned internet is a friggin nuisance