Interesting Statistic

[Abasmajor]

Hi,

Only 33 out of 167 (20%) of Lots sold at the recent sale of the David Swan collection in Newcastle went to the room with the rest identified as internet sales.

A sign of the times and perhaps a reluctance of us soft Southerners to travel up North despite the considerable incentive.

Regards

Brian.

[Phil Russell]

Yes, interesting. It begs the questions:
- did the internet bidders view in person before the sale, or
- did they get someone else to give them a condition report or
- did they buy blind or based on the auction house picture or report.

Not sure I would want to rely on a picture or auction house report. But as a Collectable, would people still bid on a gun in the knowledge it may be faulty or not exactly as presented in the picture?

In a more Victor Meldrew fashion, I often wonder if the ability to bid on line has driven prices up in recent years. Very good for the seller but maybe not so good for the buyer looking for a bargain.
Cheers, Phil

[Garvin]

Yes, interesting. It begs the questions:
- did the internet bidders view in person before the sale, or
- did they get someone else to give them a condition report or
- did they buy blind or based on the auction house picture or report.

Not sure I would want to rely on a picture or auction house report. But as a Collectable, would people still bid on a gun in the knowledge it may be faulty or not exactly as presented in the picture?

In a more Victor Meldrew fashion, I often wonder if the ability to bid on line has driven prices up in recent years. Very good for the seller but maybe not so good for the buyer looking for a bargain.
Cheers, Phil

These are good questions, Phil.

Speaking just for myself, I'm almost exclusively an internet-based collector nowadays, and I buy 'blind' all the time (ie. I rely on pics for information on external condition and the seller's word on performance).

In fact, you could say, taking the risk of buying a complete lemon is part of my purchasing calculation! On this basis I have acquired (and then disposed of) numerous colectables through eGun over the past decade, and on balance it's paid off. Sometimes a gun arrives that's worse than expected, and was therefore over-priced, but those occasions are balanced by the many purchases that exceed expectations!

It's certainly a different way of collecting to the old way - so nicely described by Silva the other day (thanks Morgan!), but I wouldn't say it's particularly worse overall. There's less face time with other collectors, less time spent in general, in fact. There's less enjoyment through discovery too than there was at arms fairs, or rooting through boxes in a junk shop.

But essentially there's the same thrill waiting for the package to arrive, at getting a bargain, or a rarity at a decent price, or finding that thing I've been looking for for years. There's (international) connections of a 'keyboard' kind in place of chats over a brew. And on the plus side, there's more opportunities for research and learning of a digital kind. The internet gives access to vintage airgun markets that was never possible before the internet.

I see myself as an airgun collector with feet in both camps, the old and the modern. Old school collectors amassed incredible collections by persistence, skill, hard graft and luck - and by sacrificing other things in life to pay for them. You still need those attributes to do well, especially money and the will to spend it; perhaps all the more so as the supply of 'new' finds dries up.

[Mark D]

I was one of the 67%

Luckily for me a very nice chap looked at the lots for me prior to bidding, that said,I thought that the pictures provided were very good and having received my lots today I can say that I was not disappointed with them.

Clearly internet bidding did not in the case of this auction push prices up at all. The general consensus was that almost every lot went at a very reasonable price even accounting for the premium and internet % uplift being added.

If it had been left to the 15-18 people in the room and a few phone and postal bids I am sure that the seller would have been very disappointed.

[harry mac]

Of course, the up-side to on line bidding is that you're protected by distance selling laws, so if it does turn out to be significantly different from the description, or if obvious faults haven't been mentioned, then you're entitled to a refund.

[Garvin]

Of course, the up-side to on line bidding is that you're protected by distance selling laws, so if it does turn out to be significantly different from the description, or if obvious faults haven't been mentioned, then you're entitled to a refund.

I think you're right Harry. The regulations that came in in 2000 excluded auctions, but a new law in 2013 covers them.

Trading Standards say:

Online auctions between a business and a consumer will now be cancellable – but not auctions you can attend in person.

Consumers must now send items back within 14 days and the trader must refund within 14 days.

[micky]

Of course, the up-side to on line bidding is that you're protected by distance selling laws, so if it does turn out to be significantly different from the description, or if obvious faults haven't been mentioned, then you're entitled to a refund.

That's a very intresting bit of information, l must try and remember that many thanks.

[micky]

These are good questions, Phil.

Speaking just for myself, I'm almost exclusively an internet-based collector nowadays, and I buy 'blind' all the time (ie. I rely on pics for information on external condition and the seller's word on performance).

In fact, you could say, taking the risk of buying a complete lemon is part of my purchasing calculation! On this basis I have acquired (and then disposed of) numerous colectables through eGun over the past decade, and on balance it's paid off. Sometimes a gun arrives that's worse than expected, and was therefore over-priced, but those occasions are balanced by the many purchases that exceed expectations!

It's certainly a different way of collecting to the old way - so nicely described by Silva the other day (thanks Morgan!), but I wouldn't say it's particularly worse overall. There's less face time with other collectors, less time spent in general, in fact. There's less enjoyment through discovery too than there was at arms fairs, or rooting through boxes in a junk shop.

But essentially there's the same thrill waiting for the package to arrive, at getting a bargain, or a rarity at a decent price, or finding that thing I've been looking for for years. There's (international) connections of a 'keyboard' kind in place of chats over a brew. And on the plus side, there's more opportunities for research and learning of a digital kind. The internet gives access to vintage airgun markets that was never possible before the internet.

I see myself as an airgun collector with feet in both camps, the old and the modern. Old school collectors amassed incredible collections by persistence, skill, hard graft and luck - and by sacrificing other things in life to pay for them. You still need those attributes to do well, especially money and the will to spend it; perhaps all the more so as the supply of 'new' finds dries up.

Hi Danny l am the same as you feet in both camps, but l still prefare to go out looking for them, but with on line bidding you pay your money and take your chance and l always take into account all the fees + postage cost which can be expensive.

[Binners]

I think you're right Harry. The regulations that came in in 2000 excluded auctions, but a new law in 2013 covers them.

Trading Standards say:

Online auctions between a business and a consumer will now be cancellable – but not auctions you can attend in person.

Consumers must now send items back within 14 days and the trader must refund within 14 days.

So auctions that 'you can', but didn't must still have the get-out In this case, surely if you bought a pig it is T.S. because you could have attended???

Only saying like....

[Garvin]

So auctions that 'you can', but didn't must still have the get-out In this case, surely if you bought a pig it is T.S. because you could have attended???

Only saying like....

Good point, Peter. Are you covered for just online-only auctions, or normal ones that you happen not to have attended as well?

[Garvin]

So auctions that 'you can', but didn't must still have the get-out In this case, surely if you bought a pig it is T.S. because you could have attended???

Only saying like....

I fired off an email to a mate of mine who is a lawyer and she replies that the 2013 regulations exclude from the right to cancel "contracts concluded at a public auction"...

[Binners]

I fired off an email to a mate of mine who is a lawyer and she replies that the 2013 regulations exclude from the right to cancel "contracts concluded at a public auction"...

So if you are NOT AT the public auction, can you claim a refund if you bid online or by telephone ? Don't mean to come across as a knob, but it would be nice to know for certain ?

Just recently, I had an auctioneer describe a Webley as 'mint' and I later received photos showing it as a poor refinished job.

[Garvin]

So if you are NOT AT the public auction, can you claim a refund if you bid online or by telephone ? Don't mean to come across as a knob, but it would be nice to know for certain ?

Just recently, I had an auctioneer describe a Webley as 'mint' and I later received photos showing it as a poor refinished job.

Apparently not, Peter, because the contract is made at a public auction. If the auction is 'internet only', as some of the Holts sales are, you are covered, as I understand it.

[Binners]

Apparently not, Peter, because the contract is made at a public auction. If the auction is 'internet only', as some of the Holts sales are, you are covered, as I understand it.

Thank you Danny,

A few times I have waited at an auction for one rifle and been outbid by an internet and or phone bidder, sometimes the guns have been no more than average, yet some people are prepared to blind bid double their worth. Not only are they disappointed on delivery, but I waste a day....