Need advice on FX hand pump lube

[slow_runner]

The FX hand pump is due a service. It was bought second hand some time back without instructions.
We have the schematic AND the digital photos
Courtesy of Airguns of Arizona, the manual speaks of Fuchs Renolit RHF-1 grease.
So, onto the the local FX agency; no joy there for spares or lube.
Next, I rang Fuchs Lubricants NZ; they will be able to help, right?
No joy there either, in fact they couldn't tell me anything about it at all.
I have rang around the place and no joy. What is this mysterious Fuchs Renolit RHF-1 that no one appears to be aware of, or have cross reference to?

We are not at our wits end yet but before that time arrives, has anyone got the name of a compatible grease that will function as the recommended grease from FX, or better?

Cheers.

[GrahamHenderson]

Hills pumps are basically the same,

http://www.airriflepump.com/acatalog...se.html#SID=13

me, well i just use 3-in-one oil, been pumping for years !!

[brassbanjo]

I had the same problem, could not find RENOLIT-RHF1 anywhere

The only thing that cropped up was this:
evilbay.co.uk/itm/LQUID8R-FX-1-Synth-Grease-w-PTFE-Replaces-RENOLIT-RHF-Precharge-PCP-Airgun-Pumps/271115044952

Although I would think it would be OK to use the same silicone-based grease that Hill does.

Pse don't use 3-in-1 in these high pressure pumps, it could be very dangerous!

[angrybear]

[QUOTE=brassbanjo;7046185]I had the same problem, could not find RENOLIT-RHF1 anywhere

The only thing that cropped up was this:
evilbay.co.uk/itm/LQUID8R-FX-1-Synth-Grease-w-PTFE-Replaces-RENOLIT-RHF-Precharge-PCP-Airgun-Pumps/271115044952

Although I would think it would be OK to use the same silicone-based grease that Hill does.

Pse don't use 3-in-1 in these high pressure pumps, it could be very dangerous![/QUOTE]

Please explain why

A normal mineral oil would be dangerous if used with high pressure &/or pure Oxygen, but poses absolutely no risk what-so ever with compressed air.

[brassbanjo]

[QUOTE=angrybear;7046416]

Although I would think it would be OK to use the same silicone-based grease that Hill does.

Pse don't use 3-in-1 in these high pressure pumps, it could be very dangerous![/QUOTE]

Please explain why

A normal mineral oil would be dangerous if used with high pressure &/or pure Oxygen, but poses absolutely no risk what-so ever with compressed air.

? what is the difference between "high pressure" and "compressed air"? all these pumps produce highly compressed air, which in the presence of a fuel (such as mineral oil)
is quite capable of sustaining combustion. It does not need to be pure oxygen, no?

[slow_runner]

I had the same problem, could not find RENOLIT-RHF1 anywhere. The only thing that cropped up was this: evilbay.co.uk/itm/LQUID8R-FX-1-Synth-Grease-w-PTFE-Replaces-RENOLIT-RHF-Precharge-PCP-Airgun-Pumps/271115044952
Although I would think it would be OK to use the same silicone-based grease that Hill does.
Pse don't use 3-in-1 in these high pressure pumps, it could be very dangerous!

Thanks Angry and BB
I did come across that LIQUID8R, however nothing local, only from the USA for a few American dollars with a healthy freight rate.
It would appear that RHF1 is an industry classification for extreme pressure/temp range?
Will be making more enquiries on the dognbone today.

[angrybear]

[QUOTE=brassbanjo;7046453]

? what is the difference between "high pressure" and "compressed air"? all these pumps produce highly compressed air, which in the presence of a fuel (such as mineral oil)
is quite capable of sustaining combustion. It does not need to be pure oxygen, no?

Yes, it does need to be Oxygen (or Oxygen rich) for there to be a serious risk of combustion, (unless you are atomising a specific combustible fuel like diesel in an engine) the only risk with 3 in 1 in a compressed air pump is possible contamination.

Compressed air is just that it is atmospheric air compressed, and the atmosphere is 78% Nitrogen & less than 21% Oxygen, so the inert N2 acts as a "damper" to the O2 content.

I clearly stated "high pressure &/or pure Oxygen" with the Oxygen underlined.

Oxygen and Compressed Air are two hugely different things and have markedly different characteristics under pressure, while pure Oxygen is volatile even at atmospheric pressure.

[brassbanjo]

[QUOTE=angrybear;7046817]

Yes, it does need to be Oxygen (or Oxygen rich) for there to be a serious risk of combustion, (unless you are atomising a specific combustible fuel like diesel in an engine) the only risk with 3 in 1 in a compressed air pump is possible contamination.

Not being funny or anything, but there have been fatal accidents where people have been messing with high pressure AIR (not oxygen) and unsuitable oils
like mineral oil. I haven't heard of an accident involving pumps specifically, but certainly people have been killed attempting to top up paintball tanks from a HPA tank.

The typical scenario is that people are attempting a field repair to the leaky fill valve of a paintball tank by squirting a few drops of oil on the o-ring in there (rather than having to wait till the next day to replace the o-ring). The air from the HPA tank then blows the oil inside the paintball tank and explosions occur.

What makes you so sure this cannot happen with a pump?

[slow_runner]

I came upon this 'SuperLube Synthetic Grease' http://www.guncity.com/superlube-syn...-85-gr.-117304

We're giving it a bash. Certainly the pumping effort has been reduced markedly so we will see how it performs over the long term.


The debate about mineral oils (fuel), high pressure/temperature, oxygen/air ratios would seem to be deserving of a thread on its own?

[oliver13]

I use silicone grease on my pump, there's no metal to metal contact, it's all metal to O ring sliding surfaces.


'The debate about mineral oils (fuel), high pressure/temperature, oxygen/air ratios would seem to be deserving of a thread on its own?'

Instead of starting a new thread on the subject, just Google 'high pressure air mineral oil explosion risk':

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?ei=f2...explosion+risk

It's not really something that needs discussion, it is what it is.

[slow_runner]

Yep, and the explosive nature of flour is a thing to observe.
The suggestion of a separate thread was for BB and Angry or anyone else who might require a vigorous debate

[oliver13]

What's to debate? It's the laws of physics & chemistry, debate with them - & good luck...

[Nessmuk]

Compressed air is just that it is atmospheric air compressed, and the atmosphere is 78% Nitrogen & less than 21% Oxygen, so the inert N2 acts as a "damper" to the O2 content.

Doesn't stop internal combustion engines from working does it? They only get their oxygen from the atmosphere. I'd say it's unlikely you'd end up with the right oil and compressed air mix for it to combust, but there must be a small chance that you could, surely? Worth avoiding the wrong oil for that reason I would think.

[angrybear]

Doesn't stop internal combustion engines from working does it? They only get their oxygen from the atmosphere. I'd say it's unlikely you'd end up with the right oil and compressed air mix for it to combust, but there must be a small chance that you could, surely? Worth avoiding the wrong oil for that reason I would think.

True, but petrol engines require a spark to ignite the mixture and diesel engines require the fuel to be injected, atomised at high pressure and a precise measure. (as I stated in the line above the one you quoted )

Anything with a reasonably high calorific value can be made to combust if precisely the correct conditions are met, as slow_runner intimates a cloud of flour can be ignited with spectacular results, however that does not mean that a smear of 3in1 on a pump seal is going to.

[slow_runner]

More help needed thanks.
Despite being stripped down, cleaned, then carefully reassembled, the pump will only attain 150bar.
All manner of O ring grades have been tried to no avail. So now we are back to original spec with no change in behaviour of the pump.
Would we be correct in assuming that 150bar is the 2nd stage limit and the problem could exist somewhere in the final stage? But where, why?
Has anyone had similar results and what was the solution?

It is driving Jeff crazy; I'm Ok as I am there already