Shock at Holts auction charges

[elanmac]

I've just received payment from Holts for two airguns in the December auction. The Baker realised £800 and the BSA £420. All I received was £820 after commision which I expected to pay but to pay £150 + vat for the photos in the catalogue was a shock to say the least.
The remainder of my collection will not be going to Holts.
Mac

[gingernut]

Read the small print?
But to be fair to you one would expect that the catalogue would be an expense covered by Holts.

[Phil Russell]

Hmm ... auction charges do seem to have escalated of late. I know one auction house that has a minimum £8 (or thereabout) sellers commission witn a commission rate of about 20% anyway. So if you sell at, say, £30 you still pay the £8 rather than 20% of £30 = £6.
Buyers commission also seems to have increased as well. 10% used to be about right years ago, then it became 15% or 18% or 20% but now 23% is not unheard of.
Makes you wonder if it is worth putting items into auction or even buying from an auction ....
Cheers, Phil

[draitzer]

Then, if the purchaser complains about a high "buyer's premium" the answer tends to be "well, we have to pay for the photography and cataloging" !! I think the real answer is, people are still bidding and the fees will increase until folks stay away.

Don R.

[rowen28]

Holts do seem to have a great business model... 15% or so for the seller, 23% for the buyer, plus extras for photos and catalogues. Let's say 40% of the hammer price on average, and they have 4 big sales a year.
What I can't understand is some of the hammer prices. Modern shotguns for example, seem to go for close to retail price, which considering the commission just doesn't make sense!

[Geezer]

I like Holts. I particularly like being close to the place they use for London sales and getting to check out stuff I could never afford, like Purdey pairs and Rigby Mausers and stuff.

I once briefly worked for an auctioneers in the mid 80s. I got a lot of insight into the business.

My point is it is a business. They are a lot like estate agents, car dealers, or RFDs. They take as much as they can. The complex fee/VAT structure disguises the final costs, whether buying or selling. They can be charming individuals, but that is their job. You have to temper your expectations, and really carefully read and understand the small print.

If this sounds preachy, it's not meant to be. I know a fair amount about the trade, and am pretty cynical about the accuracy of catalogue descriptions and price estimates across the auction trade, but sometimes I still end up getting in a position where, as a buyer, I have, by my standards, over-paid.

[Jerry Cornelius]

I am surprised it is so expensive for sellers because, blimey, its not cheap for buyers. I got something at their recent sale for a hammer price that was a bargain (because I had factored in their premium, VAT and so on, which brought the bid up to what I think is market price), so the seller is paying twice, first if bidders lower their bids, and then directly.

I would not have been happy to be the seller.

[Garvin]

You're right Mac, Holts is a terrible place to sell airguns, and the amount they cream off is extortionate, business or no business. The only way you can do well out of it is if their 'selling power' means that bidders go well above estimate, as sometimes happens.

I sold off quite a large number of airguns, including plenty of non-exceptional ones, a few years ago through Holts, mainly because it suited me that they were happy to collect them in one go and take care of everything, leaving me with nothing to do except hope there were plenty of well-heeled, keen buyers on the day (there weren't ).

But in the end I reckon I received only half or less of what I might have made if I had advertised them privately, boxed them up, and posted them individually.

The lack of decent insurance nowadays when posting air rifles doesn't help...

With their fixed costs falling through web-based advertising, digital publishing etc, commissions should be going down, not up.

[45flint]

That just seems so crazy, I'm in the US and I resently auctioned off some of my good centerfire guns to fund my recent acquisition of vintage airguns. It was 10% commission, check in the mail in two weeks. They were happy and so was I.

[ccdjg]

What we need is a dedicated online auction site like the German eGun. Reach a wide audience, provide your own photo's at no cost, and guns delivered by mail by the seller. Despite the issues with buying from outside the UK I have used eGun on several occasions and never had any problems.

[bullbarrel]

and guns delivered by mail by the seller.

I think we see enough fraud on here to know that sadly won't work. Let alone the arguments over condition etc.

[RichardH]

I've just received payment from Holts for two airguns in the December auction. The Baker realised £800 and the BSA £420. All I received was £820 after commision which I expected to pay but to pay £150 + vat for the photos in the catalogue was a shock to say the least.
The remainder of my collection will not be going to Holts.
Mac

The photo charge is on the form you tick the options and sign, if you didn't sign for them challenge it.

I would venture the pictures go a long way to realising the best price but if you didn't order the photos you shouldn't pay for them.

[Muskett]

The work required and handling required at auction houses for each item, and to get enough lots to make a sale, means 40% commission becoming the norm. For London costs, anything under £150 hammer price is a loss maker to an auction house. Add unsold lots and its even harder.

The £150 charge for photos has always been a big con. The bigger auction houses can make a profit from catalogue subscriptions sell in 500 to 1000 on a big art auction. Or break even as part of the promotion PR game.
Thing is gun auctions aren't very profitable. Holts competes with other auction houses and takes many guns others wouldn't.
Its a business and margins are tight. Met someone the other day who did some work experience with them; he couldn't believe how tight they were on everything; extremely tight wages. Thing is they all are tight and take no prisoners as its a competitive business and the big players take the cream; Holts isn't a big player and does its best to give a return on investment and good living for the top partners. Has good years and bad.

Guntrader and GunStar are direct competition now. So is BBS sales section.

If you want best prices and have the time then sell them yourselves. I do. Hate to think of the time I use selling a £40 scope or £200 rifle. But its for the sake of the hobby, not paying wages, taxes and overheads.

[vbull]

Extortionate charges or not their auctions are always well attended, people still think they're going to get a bargain which is the bit I don't understand. Complain to them or stay away, I'll never buy or sell anything through them again and I have complained about their charges including catalogue picture prices.

[flogger]

I've just received payment from Holts for two airguns in the December auction. The Baker realised £800 and the BSA £420. All I received was £820 after commision which I expected to pay but to pay £150 + vat for the photos in the catalogue was a shock to say the least.
The remainder of my collection will not be going to Holts.
Mac

The poor buyer of your guns Mac, which tots up to £1220 has to pay 25% comm.plus vat of 20% on comm. which is circa £1586.They have done very well out of you and others.