A solution for which there is no problem whatsoever.....

[tacfoley]

Being a tight-fisted old fart, I seldom invest almost a fiver in ANY gun magazine, and Gun Mart, I have to admit, is no exception to this general rule. What I do do, however, is read up their often usefully interesting write-ups on their website, and I've been known to make a usually ignored comment where I feel it was necessary.

This time, however, I'm not going to bother to make it there, but here instead.

Y'see, Anvil Conversions have taken an already very fine Uberti percussion revolver modelled on the Remington New Model Army of 1858, and, at great expense, have converted it into.........a percussion revolver.

https://www.gunmart.net/gun-reviews/...anvil-renegade

Somebody here will tell me what a great leap in firearms technology this has been.

Personally, it reminds me of Blackadder's lackwit sidekick, Baldrick, and his aside about Mrs Miggins, who 'makes a giant pie, in the shape of a pie...'

[Turnup]

It is converted, and proofed, to use nitro powders rather than BP/BP substitute, and thus is the nearest thing to a modern cartridge pistol but still qualifies as a muzzle loader and thus is S1. There are a number of variations on this theme so it is not unique.

[tacfoley]

It is converted, and proofed, to use nitro powders rather than BP/BP substitute, and thus is the nearest thing to a modern cartridge pistol but still qualifies as a muzzle loader and thus is S1. There are a number of variations on this theme so it is not unique.

I both understand the theory and have shot the nitro-converted 'real' revolvers made by this company. For THEM, I can see a reason. They CAN be shot at the usual 25m pistol target, just like we used to do over here on the mainland of UK. You can even see me shooting one on Youtube. That way, here on mainland UK, you can get to shoot a modern-looking and feeling handgun as a S1 firearm.

But to convert a loose-loading percussion revolver, that still LOOKS like a loose-loading percussion revolver, into a loose-loading percussion revolver, one that cannot be used in ANY BP handgun competitions anywhere on the planet, seems to make no sense at all.

What am I missing?

[DesG]

I think they are for the people who like the idea of authentic black powder shooting but don’t like the smell or the mess. They usually drink alcohol free lager and use fat free suet.

[tacfoley]

i think they are for the people who like the idea of authentic black powder shooting but don’t like the smell or the mess. They usually drink alcohol free lager and use fat free suet.

lol!!

[keith66]

While it reinforces yet again what a mess our firearms laws are in, one has to question the reasoning behind this in a UK context, circumventing the law by loophole is only going to get laws tightened yet again?

[enfield2band]

While it reinforces yet again what a mess our firearms laws are in, one has to question the reasoning behind this in a UK context, circumventing the law by loophole is only going to get laws tightened yet again?

They are not circumventing anything. It is only the propellant that has changed.

Breechloading handguns were banned because of how fast they could be reloaded, either with a speedloader or a magazine. The ready made cartridge made this very convenient.

I'm sure you know how long it takes to load a muzzleloading pistol/revolver and and how fiddly all the loose bits are to manipulate, which is not a problem with the self contained cartridge.

[loiner1965]

i dont think it will apply to this pistol as its modern steel and a lot stronger than old bp revolvers.
i understand they have reinforced lol the cylinder to take smokeless loads but many old revolvers broke the top strap using bp loads and hard cast bullets.
it can be the pressure on the forcing cone if you dont use soft lead or too much a load causing the top strap to stretch over a period of time.
interesting to know how strong modern bp revolvers are even though they say bp only

[tacfoley]

i dont think it will apply to this pistol as its modern steel and a lot stronger than old bp revolvers.
i understand they have reinforced lol the cylinder to take smokeless loads but many old revolvers broke the top strap using bp loads and hard cast bullets.
it can be the pressure on the forcing cone if you dont use soft lead or too much a load causing the top strap to stretch over a period of time.
interesting to know how strong modern bp revolvers are even though they say bp only

Over in the USA, where such things are not uncommon, the Ruger Old Army is routinely converted to fire .45LC metallic cartridges.

However, regarding the item that we are looking at here. The load of 4-5gr of the usual Nitro propellant for this kind of conversion - Unique/Bullseye/Red/Blue/Green Dot is not likely to make any great waves in the pressure department. It is, after all, still shooting a ball and not a large heavy bullet, although I have no doubt that there WILL inevitably be those who, in a fit of investigation, might put a lead conical in it. No doubt we'll read about it on these pages in due course.

[loiner1965]

the old french 1873 mas 11mm revolver of the " mummy fame " broke its top strap when folk use to ream its cylinders to accept .45 acp cartriges

[Abasmajor]

I have been shooting conventional Muzzle Loading Revolvers since I lost my breech loading revolvers in 1997. Unfortunately, we lost access to our outdoor range a year or so ago resulting in the adaption of our indoor range to accommodate pistol calibre rifles and nitro conversion revolvers. Of the two conversions available from new, one was based on a modern D/A revolver design using .38 wadcutter bullets loaded off gun using a small press. The other was the Anvil conversion to the Uberti Remington 1858 NMA which used soft lead ball loaded in exactly the same manner as my conventional Uberti revolver. I have now been able to join another local club with an outdoor range, but will continue to shoot my Anvil conversion for the many advantages it provides over the traditional revolvers. A lot of thought has gone into the conversion with cylinder having been completely replaced with a rebated version which has been machined to ensure the lower portion holds just the recommended charge of smokeless powder which is clearly visible during the loading process. Initially, I wanted an S/A revolver similar in handling to my conventional model, but which was suitable for use at a certified indoor range. The Anvil met my needs perfectly, being exactly the same make and model as my existing revolver, but capable of being used indoors.

Although I clean my revolvers after every trip to the range, the use of smokeless powder removes the necessity to do so immediately. In addition to this, the 209 shotgun primers are cheaper than the No 11 caps, more reliable and easier to fit during cold weather. No grease or fillers are needed at the range with the balls having previously been coated with Allox lubricant before being returned to their box.

Using the recommended smokeless powder load, I have found that the nitro conversion revolver shoots just as accurately as my conventional revolver and coincidentally almost to exactly the same point of aim as when using 777 powder outdoors. Since owning the gun, I have not experienced any primer failures or cylinder binding issues during the expenditure of many rounds without having to periodically remove the cylinder during the session.

It's worth noting that Nitro Conversion revolvers are also eligible for use at the "Repeating Pistol Meetings" organised by the Surrey Branch of the MLAGB in conjunction with The South London Rifle Club at Bisley.

Maybe not for the purist, but perfect for those who don’t have access to an outdoor range and want to continue with the sport they love.

Brian

[tacfoley]

the old french 1873 mas 11mm revolver of the " mummy fame " broke its top strap when folk use to ream its cylinders to accept .45 acp cartriges

The 11mm French Ordance revolver cartridge, after revision, fired a 160gr soft lead bullet at 620fps.

The .45ACP cartridge in service form shot a 230gr FMJ at 835 fps.

There are loons everywhere, including law-breakers who take their lives in their hands in the backyard workshops.

By comparison. not only is the Ruger Old Army made of high quality investment cast stainless steel, but the top strap is almost twice as thick as that of the 19th C French revolver.

[tacfoley]

I have been shooting conventional Muzzle Loading Revolvers since I lost my breech loading revolvers in 1997. Unfortunately, we lost access to our outdoor range a year or so ago resulting in the adaption of our indoor range to accommodate pistol calibre rifles and nitro conversion revolvers. Of the two conversions available from new, one was based on a modern D/A revolver design using .38 wadcutter bullets loaded off gun using a small press. The other was the Anvil conversion to the Uberti Remington 1858 NMA which used soft lead ball loaded in exactly the same manner as my conventional Uberti revolver. I have now been able to join another local club with an outdoor range, but will continue to shoot my Anvil conversion for the many advantages it provides over the traditional revolvers. A lot of thought has gone into the conversion with cylinder having been completely replaced with a rebated version which has been machined to ensure the lower portion holds just the recommended charge of smokeless powder which is clearly visible during the loading process. Initially, I wanted an S/A revolver similar in handling to my conventional model, but which was suitable for use at a certified indoor range. The Anvil met my needs perfectly, being exactly the same make and model as my existing revolver, but capable of being used indoors.

Although I clean my revolvers after every trip to the range, the use of smokeless powder removes the necessity to do so immediately. In addition to this, the 209 shotgun primers are cheaper than the No 11 caps, more reliable and easier to fit during cold weather. No grease or fillers are needed at the range with the balls having previously been coated with Allox lubricant before being returned to their box.

Using the recommended smokeless powder load, I have found that the nitro conversion revolver shoots just as accurately as my conventional revolver and coincidentally almost to exactly the same point of aim as when using 777 powder outdoors. Since owning the gun, I have not experienced any primer failures or cylinder binding issues during the expenditure of many rounds without having to periodically remove the cylinder during the session.

Maybe not for the purist, but perfect for those who don’t have access to an outdoor range and want to continue with the sport they love.

Brian

Good post, and I see and respect your POV.

[loiner1965]

The 11mm French Ordance revolver cartridge, after revision, fired a 160gr soft lead bullet at 620fps.

The .45ACP cartridge in service form shot a 230gr FMJ at 835 fps.

There are loons everywhere, including law-breakers who take their lives in their hands in the backyard workshops.

By comparison. not only is the Ruger Old Army made of high quality investment cast stainless steel, but the top strap is almost twice as thick as that of the 19th C French revolver.

just had a reread from another forum about the 11mm french revolver, it says the cylinder was very strong but the weakest part was the top strap which could take mild .45acp loads of around 800 bar.
like everything else you will get numpties using excessive smokeless powder in these old bp revolvers which they do in the usa now.
i was interested in the strength of the modern made uberti 1858.....i know the uberti says bp only for safety and to stop people using smokeless in them etc bu anyone know how strong they are ?

[tacfoley]

just had a reread from another forum about the 11mm french revolver, it says the cylinder was very strong but the weakest part was the top strap which could take mild .45acp loads of around 800 bar.
like everything else you will get numpties using excessive smokeless powder in these old bp revolvers which they do in the usa now.
i was interested in the strength of the modern made uberti 1858.....i know the uberti says bp only for safety and to stop people using smokeless in them etc bu anyone know how strong they are ?

There is a world of difference between the stresses undergone by the pressure-bearing parts of a revolver shooting a late 19th century Black Powder cartridge like the 11 French Ordnance round, and even the basic NITRO loaded .45ACP.