Entering Reloads on FAC

[svincett]

Thank you for your answers so far.

I didnt know if the law had changed or if there was any new legal requirements.

svincett

Do you have a link to that Stalking website conversation thread ?


Thanks so far


Lakey

https://www.thestalkingdirectory.co....on-fac.175160/

Regards Steve

[keith66]

The only thing a certificate holder is allowed to write on their certificate is their signature! All other entries are for transfers firearms or ammunition to the certificate holder. You cannot transfer something from yourself to yourself.

What about if you already own a section 58 antique rifle or ml pistol & decide to shoot it? A recent thread on this or another forum suggested that it was currently permissible to enter such a gun on your certificate ie "From my collection" provided that there is a vacant slot for it on your ticket of course!
Also that currently such a gun could be removed from your ticket by police & sold as an antique.

[sarge4318]

The only thing a certificate holder is allowed to write on their certificate is their signature! All other entries are for transfers firearms or ammunition to the certificate holder. You cannot transfer something from yourself to yourself.

What about if you already own a section 58 antique rifle or ml pistol & decide to shoot it? A recent thread on this or another forum suggested that it was currently permissible to enter such a gun on your certificate ie "From my collection" provided that there is a vacant slot for it on your ticket of course!
Also that currently such a gun could be removed from your ticket by police & sold as an antique.

You can write on your FAC.

As mentioned above in these circumstances you would add your own s58 to the FAC to shoot it. When I did this and finally had had enough of shooting it (cleaning it really) I emailed the FLD and stuck it back on the wall. The police only remove it from your FAC record, not your FAC, that is until it is renewed or varied

Also if you import a firearm you have to put it on your FAC. Contrary to popular myth, it is not the Customs Officer's responsibility to do this, it is your responsibility as you are the importer.
The same if you make/build a rifle somehow, you will be the one adding it to your FAC.

What you don't need to enter onto the FAC is reloaded ammunition. At least, not yet.

[davederrick]

My FEO told me to never write on my own certificate for any reason, if I'm buying guns/ammo then its written on by the person selling it.
I have a Martini Henry that was held under Section 7, but wanted it moved to Section 1 to shoot it. I sent the FAC in, after phoning to explain it all, and got the certificate back in a few days. Good service.
Entering reloads sounds like overreach.

[harricook]

The only thing a certificate holder is allowed to write on their certificate is their signature! All other entries are for transfers firearms or ammunition to the certificate holder. You cannot transfer something from yourself to yourself.

^^^^ is the correct answer !!!

👍😊

[sarge4318]

^^^^ is the correct answer !!!

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Except it's not.

As explained above; if you import a firearm you write it on as importer, if you create a firearm from parts (can be done but not easy from a paperwork point of view) you write it on as the one transferring it, if you want to shoot a s58 antique and you have a spare slot for it you write it on as the transferrer, if you overpower your air rifle and have the slot you write it on, if you want to use your air rifle moderator as a s1 moderator you write it on.
In each case you are the one transferring the item to yourself, from not-on-FAC to on-FAC.

[HarrisK]

Keeping your own records for your personal use is a good practice, however, it should not be given voluntarily it is not required by law, if we give them this information it will soon become a precedent and they will demand to see everyone's records?. If they want to demand this then they should change the law, the law doesn't change very often because it's a long complicated process, but without this they will continue to keep changing their requirements, one of the biggest problems we have at the moment is the complete lack of a standard procedure.

[pbranthwaite]

Except it's not.

As explained above; if you import a firearm you write it on as importer, if you create a firearm from parts (can be done but not easy from a paperwork point of view) you write it on as the one transferring it, if you want to shoot a s58 antique and you have a spare slot for it you write it on as the transferrer, if you overpower your air rifle and have the slot you write it on, if you want to use your air rifle moderator as a s1 moderator you write it on.
In each case you are the one transferring the item to yourself, from not-on-FAC to on-FAC.

Not suggesting you're incorrect, but my licensing dept would disagree (not saying they're correct either) I converted a sect 2 shotgun to sect 1 as I had a slot for one,they (Northumbria) asked be to take it to an RFD to confirm it had been converted and they filled in my ticket. Odd, I agree as they did none of the work.

[sarge4318]

Not suggesting you're incorrect, but my licensing dept would disagree (not saying they're correct either) I converted a sect 2 shotgun to sect 1 as I had a slot for one,they (Northumbria) asked be to take it to an RFD to confirm it had been converted and they filled in my ticket. Odd, I agree as they did none of the work.

With all due respect to the FEOs out there who have a difficult job but in my experience do it well under the circumstances, many do not know all of the laws surrounding firearms. This was borne out by the Plymouth enquiry and since then many have gone on mandatory training.
I do wonder in your case above if the RFD happened to have got it wrong and you were not in possession of a legal firearm who would be liable? Especially if you had gone the other way (s1 to s2) and the RFD thought you had done the restriction to a good standard but not to the legal minimum standard to make s2 status who would be liable later when you're shooting at the clay ground?
I have had FEOs tell me they have been in the job for 13 years and there is no such thing as a flash hider or flash eliminator.
I have had one ask why the need for a s5 carrier to transport s7(3) weapons when the owner could transport it themselves, or how else would they get to the competitions.

There are many ways to do the transfer, if someone is unsure on the correct process as seems to be the case with your FLD then the default is to get it done some other way they know should be legal.

But the thing is; there are definitely other reasons an FAC holder can write on their own FAC other than signing it.

[zanes]

I do wonder in your case above if the RFD happened to have got it wrong and you were not in possession of a legal firearm who would be liable? Especially if you had gone the other way (s1 to s2) and the RFD thought you had done the restriction to a good standard but not to the legal minimum standard to make s2 status who would be liable later when you're shooting at the clay ground?

We're on a bit of a tangent here now but worth noting that this "what if?" isn't likely to happen- having looked into getting my FAC supernova on to SGC to sell on it turns out an S1 to S2 conversion must be inspected, stamped and certified by a proof house to be legally held on an S2.

[sarge4318]

We're on a bit of a tangent here now but worth noting that this "what if?" isn't likely to happen- having looked into getting my FAC supernova on to SGC to sell on it turns out an S1 to S2 conversion must be inspected, stamped and certified by a proof house to be legally held on an S2.

Selling it on is the issue here. You can get it 'proofed' or Proof House marked yourself.

The writing of it onto the FAC or the SGC (depending upon which way you are going) is also something you can do yourself.

[NW1100]

Short and sweet answer is that there is nothing in current legislation requiring details or quantities of reloads to be entered on a firearms certificate.
It may be prudent to keep a separate record however again there is no legal requirement to do so.

[Longstrider]

Once I had the load I wanted I just wrote the recipe on a bit of card and stuck it to the wall by the reloading bench. I can remember it anyway. Speer Hot-Cor 130gr S/P bullet on top of 55.2 grains of Ramshot Hunter. Because it works I don't change it. I keep no record at all of what and how many I load. I just look at my 'stock in hand', decide I could do with making some up, and then do so until my allocated max is what I have.

On my renewal the FEO took one look at my ticket and correctly worked out that I use predominantly factory ammo for my .204, but only my home-loads for the .270. He was not in the slightest bit interested in seeing any records, or even the fact that I had a press etc.

[Rifleman]

My second FEO Richard asked me to write down my reloads on my certificate even though like most guys l keep a detailed logbook for every round i've ever made.
No big deal or hardship, l scanned and printed off the ammunition sheet one for each calibre l reload for, then once a month or every now and again l would tally up the reloads and enter the monthly totals for each calibre. These were all sent in with the rest of the paperwork when l did my renewal, my next FEO Tony who l haven't met yet, only spoke to on the phone hasn't said if he wants me to do the same but l probably will as it's only takes a few minutes.

[amc577]

Our Northants FAC are just 8 inches by 5.5 inches.. no possibility of recording reloads on such a small document..

amc577