A puzzling example of the Frank Clarke Titan pistol

[ccdjg]

An intriguing example of the last version of the Titan pistol is currently up for auction at Holts (https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...0781a7ac546975


The pistol appears to be in good overall condition with clear lettering, with virtually all the (probably) original bluing on the cylinder and frame still present, but it has a replacement barrel, which is longer than the one normally found on this particular Titan variant. The auction pictures show some loss of black finish from the barrel, and reveal the barrel to be made of brass. Even more intriguing is the fact that the front barrel housing and the trigger guard are also seemingly made of brass.

Replacing the original steel barrel with a longer brass one is understandable (but not commendable) if the owner was trying to improve accuracy, but why go to all the trouble to make a brass replacement front barrel housing and trigger guard? The steel cylinder and grip frame are in excellent condition, so it seems unlikely this was the result of a major restoration job on a badly damaged pistol.

Anyone have any suggestions ?

[DrGunn]

There are some scuff marks at the front of the cylinder which also appear brass coloured. There are no obvious joins between the barrel housing and the cylinder so if the barrel housing is brass maybe the whole pistol frame is? Maybe an experiment to see if brass castings were a viable alternative to iron?

Alternatively maybe the image colour balance has been adjusted badly giving it a slightly yellow hue? The white background looks too white so the colour and or saturation have likely been adjusted.

[Garvin]

An intriguing example of the last version of the Titan pistol is currently up for auction at Holts (https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...0781a7ac546975


The pistol appears to be in good overall condition with clear lettering, with virtually all the (probably) original bluing on the cylinder and frame still present, but it has a replacement barrel, which is longer than the one normally found on this particular Titan variant. The auction pictures show some loss of black finish from the barrel, and reveal the barrel to be made of brass. Even more intriguing is the fact that the front barrel housing and the trigger guard are also seemingly made of brass.

Replacing the original steel barrel with a longer brass one is understandable (but not commendable) if the owner was trying to improve accuracy, but why go to all the trouble to make a brass replacement front barrel housing and trigger guard? The steel cylinder and grip frame are in excellent condition, so it seems unlikely this was the result of a major restoration job on a badly damaged pistol.

Anyone have any suggestions ?

Strange! As you say, John, surely even if an owner for whatever reason wanted a different barrel, what are the odds they'd need a new guard as well? For this reason, it seems likely they are factory original. The condition of the blueing rules out a major restoration too IMO.

[DrGunn]

I've had a fiddle with the image colour settings and it doesn't take much to make all the brassy bits a silvery steel colour. I think the colour balance was adjusted to make the image warmer and the saturation turned right up to make the background white and shadow free.
I think it is just the long barrel which makes it unusual.
Nice example through.

[Abasmajor]

I note that Holts state the Ser No of the pistol as 21 which I believe is actually a manufacturing assembly related number often quoted as the Ser No on these pistols. Given the unlikelihood that a brass trigger guard would have been made to match the barrel, I would tend to agree that the appearance of the material may be deceptive.
Brian

[ccdjg]

I've had a fiddle with the image colour settings and it doesn't take much to make all the brassy bits a silvery steel colour. I think the colour balance was adjusted to make the image warmer and the saturation turned right up to make the background white and shadow free.
I think it is just the long barrel which makes it unusual.
Nice example through.

I'm sure you are right Matt, as a closer examination also shows that the pins have a brass appearance in some shots, and it is very unlikely anyone would replace steel pins with brass equivalents.

If the pistol has not undergone a major restoration after all, and the barrel is steel, then could the barrel be original after all? If so, this would make the pistol a unique and previously unreported version of the 7th model Titan. Rather like the 4th model, which was also available in short and long barrel versions. A long shot, as no other examples are known, but it would be nice to be able to examine the pistol in the flesh so that this possibility could be investigated.

[DrGunn]

I'm sure you are right Matt, as a closer examination also shows that the pins have a brass appearance in some shots, and it is very unlikely anyone would replace steel pins with brass equivalents.

If the pistol has not undergone a major restoration after all, and the barrel is steel, then could the barrel be original after all? If so, this would make the pistol a unique and previously unreported version of the 7th model Titan. Rather like the 4th model, which was also available in short and long barrel versions. A long shot, as no other examples are known, but it would be nice to be able to examine the pistol in the flesh so that this possibility could be investigated.

The more I look at the pictures, the more convinced I am that the barrel is a later been replacment.
Looking at the third image, the barrel is not screwed in properly to the threaded housing at the back of the cylinder, probably to get the front sight upright. If the barrel was original I think this would have been better fitted.
The top of the front barrel housing is missing all of its finish, this could easily be explained by the original foresight being filed off. If the barrel was original then wouldn’t this modification be done before the finish was applied?
Although the photos aren’t the clearest, the finish on the barrel does not look the same as the finish on the cylinder. The small angular patches where the finish is missing from the barrel looks more like chipped / flaking paint than worn through blueing.

[ccdjg]

The more I look at the pictures, the more convinced I am that the barrel is a later been replacment.
Looking at the third image, the barrel is not screwed in properly to the threaded housing at the back of the cylinder, probably to get the front sight upright. If the barrel was original I think this would have been better fitted.
The top of the front barrel housing is missing all of its finish, this could easily be explained by the original foresight being filed off. If the barrel was original then wouldn’t this modification be done before the finish was applied?
Although the photos aren’t the clearest, the finish on the barrel does not look the same as the finish on the cylinder. The small angular patches where the finish is missing from the barrel looks more like chipped / flaking paint than worn through blueing.

All good points Matt. I am with you and think that here we have a standard Titan Mk 7 with a replacement barrel. Though it would be nice to confirm this with a physical inspection of the gun. Hopefully whoever eventually buys it will read this thread and give us some feedback.

[Garvin]

Well spotted, Matt, your colour-adjusted pics seem to confirm there were no brass components. If we assume the barrel is a replacement, the only slightly odd thing remaining is that the trigger guard's finish seems slightly curiously worn compared to the rather good finish left on the cylinder. Of course you do sometimes see this effect when the blueing has taken better to one part than another.

[ccdjg]

By coincidence, a nice example of a normal Mk 7 Titan is currently up for auction by Wallis and Wallis (https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...c504e937008dc3). Unfortunately the auctioneers do not know their Titans very well and have catalogued it as a Type 3 model. Par for the course I suppose.

[Abasmajor]

Just heard back from Holts regarding the material used when making the 7th Series Titan coming up at the next auction.

“Thank you for your enquiry. The barrel is definitely steel (it’s magnetic). The fore-sight also appears to be steel but has taken finish much darker and in fairness could be blackened brass but I doubt it. It is my personal opinion that the barrel is a replacement but looks ok. Action cocks but is weak and trigger can be pushed forwards and up in the trigger guard which I also don’t think is correct.
Hope this helps,
Yours,
Robert Morgan,
Holts”

Brian

[ccdjg]

Just heard back from Holts regarding the material used when making the 7th Series Titan coming up at the next auction.

“Thank you for your enquiry. The barrel is definitely steel (it’s magnetic). The fore-sight also appears to be steel but has taken finish much darker and in fairness could be blackened brass but I doubt it. It is my personal opinion that the barrel is a replacement but looks ok. Action cocks but is weak and trigger can be pushed forwards and up in the trigger guard which I also don’t think is correct.
Hope this helps,
Yours,
Robert Morgan,
Holts”

Brian

Thanks for following this through Brian. It seem that out suppositions about this pistol were right.

Cheers,
John