Advice on filling a empty gun off divers tank

[WILBA]

Er not quite,

Firstly you need to close & seal the circuit, that can be with a blanking plug, or by fitting the rifle to the end of the hose.

Now when you open the cylinder valve the gauge on the cyl will show the back pressure in the hose, up to the pressure that is in the cyl,

if that pressure exceeds the pressure in the rifle it will force open the rifle fill valve and you will hear the air flow in to the rifle.

As the rifle fill valve opens you should see the cyl gauge flick down to whatever the rifle contains & while filling the cyl gauge reads for the whole system including rifle.

When you close the cyl valve the gauge reads what is in both the hose & the rifle, and should hold that pressure until you vent it,

then you open the vent to drain the hose so that it can be disconnected & the cyl gauge drops to zero.

Obviously, you cannot fill the rifle with more pressure than the cyl contains & at every rifle fill the cyl pressure will drop until it to needs a refill.

Also you keep saying 'regulator', when it probably isn't one, which is pretty confusing.
a regulator is a device to control the amount of pressure that comes out of a cylinder it will have two gauges one for the cyl pressure & one to set the outlet pressure.

The cyl has a 'Valve' to open & close which on a surface cyl has a gauge & bleed valve built in to it,
or on a scuba tank without a gauge, you should have an Airgun Adaptor which has a gauge, bleed valve & the hose which fit to the cyl outlet.

My bad angrybear. So the dive cylinder valve with guage is just a valve. Sorry i though wrong. Ok so i need tp keep the pressure going to force open the gun valve? The gun is empty so the valve should be open due to no pressure in the gun? Never had to fill a completely empty gun before so that why i was concerned not seeing pressure when i closed the dive tank valve. Just a bit twitchy as i mentioned earlier i have not had to fill a empty gun before so made me a bit nervous seeing no pressure reading when valve in tank was closed. Thanks very much for all the comments. Bloody springers are so much easier

[angrybear]

My bad angrybear. So the dive cylinder valve with guage is just a valve. Sorry i though wrong. Ok so i need tp keep the pressure going to force open the gun valve? The gun is empty so the valve should be open due to no pressure in the gun? Never had to fill a completely empty gun before so that why i was concerned not seeing pressure when i closed the dive tank valve. Just a bit twitchy as i mentioned earlier i have not had to fill a empty gun before so made me a bit nervous seeing no pressure reading when valve in tank was closed. Thanks very much for all the comments. Bloody springers are so much easier

Yes, if you're sure it's empty, not just a duff gauge on the rifle, so cock & dry fire it to check
Provided it is empty, cock the rifle (to take any spring pressure off the firing valve), connect the cylinder & open the cyl valve,

Now if the fill valve is a bit stuck you might want to give the cyl valve a good turn open (as much twist as you can do in one wrist move) rather than just try to crack it open, so that the initial pressure hits the valve hard,
but once it opens start to close the valve to slow the fill speed.
Always keep your eyes firmly on the cyl pressure gauge while filling, it tells you everything you need to know.

[WILBA]

Yes, if you're sure it's empty, not just a duff gauge on the rifle, so cock & dry fire it to check
Provided it is empty, cock the rifle (to take any spring pressure off the firing valve), connect the cylinder & open the cyl valve,

Now if the fill valve is a bit stuck you might want to give the cyl valve a good turn open (as much twist as you can do in one wrist move) rather than just try to crack it open, so that the initial pressure hits the valve hard,
but once it opens start to close the valve to slow the fill speed.
Always keep your eyes firmly on the cyl pressure gauge while filling, it tells you everything you need to know.

Thanks very much for the advice. Will try it tomorrow.

[robs5230]

There could be a couple of issues here. You are already aware that for some reason the rifle has lost it's pressure.
I'd advise not trying to fill the rifle, any further, unless you can confirm the cylinder valve is working correctly.

Firstly, I'd suggest confirming that your cylinder has enough pressure as your cylinder could be empty. You'll need to get a blanking plug from Best fittings, or borrow one.
Fit the plug in the end of the whip and crack the cylinder valve open.
The bottle gauge will then read the pressure in the cylinder as the pressure in the cylinder and whip will equalise.
You really need to have more pressure in the cylinder, than the rifle fills to, or you only get a part fill.
When you've gone through that, and you are sure you have enough pressure in the cylinder, and the cylinder gauge works, then try a fill on a mate's "known" rifle just to be sure.

If you have confirmed you have enough air, and gauge is working then carry on
When your rifle is connected to your dive cylinder, and you open the cylinder valve, the cylinder valve shows the pressure in the whip. When the fill valve opens on the rifle, the cylinder gauge then shows the equalised pressure in the rifle and whip.
When you decide to close the cylinder valve, the pressure in the whip / rifle, should remain static on the cylinder gauge until you operate the pressure relief valve on the cylinder. At this point, the rifle fill valve will seal, and the whip pressure is vented.
If the cylinder pressure shown on the whip falls, when you close the valve, you have a problem with the cylinder gauge.

I'm (possibly wrongly) assuming that your PH6 bullpup, has no gauge. This makes things a bit harder as you may have a rifle fault, though you may not.
If rifles are shot low in pressure, and you can't judge this if you have no gauge, if there is too little air pressure on the exhaust valve the valve can open and the rifle will empty. This is caused by the hammer spring forcing the hammer onto the exhaust valve preventing it sealing.
This can prevent a rifle filling properly, and its then necessary to cock the rifle, to take the pressure off the hammer, allowing the valve to seal.

So to summarise. Check the cylinder gauge is operating and that you have enough air in the cylinder, before trying to fill the rifle any further.

[angrybear]

There could be a couple of issues here. You are already aware that for some reason the rifle has lost it's pressure.
I'd advise not trying to fill the rifle, any further, unless you can confirm the cylinder valve is working correctly.

Firstly, I'd suggest confirming that your cylinder has enough pressure as your cylinder could be empty. You'll need to get a blanking plug from Best fittings, or borrow one.
Fit the plug in the end of the whip and crack the cylinder valve open.
The bottle gauge will then read the pressure in the cylinder as the pressure in the cylinder and whip will equalise.
You really need to have more pressure in the cylinder, than the rifle fills to, or you only get a part fill.
When you've gone through that, and you are sure you have enough pressure in the cylinder, and the cylinder gauge works, then try a fill on a mate's "known" rifle just to be sure.

If you have confirmed you have enough air, and gauge is working then carry on
When your rifle is connected to your dive cylinder, and you open the cylinder valve, the cylinder valve shows the pressure in the whip. When the fill valve opens on the rifle, the cylinder gauge then shows the equalised pressure in the rifle and whip.
When you decide to close the cylinder valve, the pressure in the whip / rifle, should remain static on the cylinder gauge until you operate the pressure relief valve on the cylinder. At this point, the rifle fill valve will seal, and the whip pressure is vented.
If the cylinder pressure shown on the whip falls, when you close the valve, you have a problem with the cylinder gauge.

I'm (possibly wrongly) assuming that your PH6 bullpup, has no gauge. This makes things a bit harder as you may have a rifle fault, though you may not.
If rifles are shot low in pressure, and you can't judge this if you have no gauge, if there is too little air pressure on the exhaust valve the valve can open and the rifle will empty. This is caused by the hammer spring forcing the hammer onto the exhaust valve preventing it sealing.
This can prevent a rifle filling properly, and its then necessary to cock the rifle, to take the pressure off the hammer, allowing the valve to seal.

So to summarise. Check the cylinder gauge is operating and that you have enough air in the cylinder, before trying to fill the rifle any further.

Can we stick with using the correct name for components please

A "Pressure Relief Valve" is a pre set automatic safety device, that opens to vent excess pressure before before it reaches a dangerous level,
the thing you open to vent the hose/whip is a "Bleed Valve"

Sorry that's rubbish,
If the pressure in the whip drops between closing the cyl valve & opening the bleed, all it means is that there's a pressure leak nothing to do with the cyl gauge unless that's where the leak is

[robs5230]

Can we stick with using the correct name for components please

A "Pressure Relief Valve" is a pre set automatic safety device, that opens to vent excess pressure before before it reaches a dangerous level,
the thing you open to vent the hose/whip is a "Bleed Valve"

Sorry that's rubbish,
If the pressure in the whip drops between closing the cyl valve & opening the bleed, all it means is that there's a pressure leak nothing to do with the cyl gauge unless that's where the leak is

You need to get out more.

Lets see if his cylinder is charged first eh?
And if there was a leak on the whip, do you think he might not have noticed it?

[WILBA]

You need to get out more.

Lets see if his cylinder is charged first eh?
And if there was a leak on the whip, do you think he might not have noticed it?

Hi chaps. There is shoeing on guage 260bar innthe dive cylinder. Ph6 takes 170bar.

[angrybear]

You need to get out more.

Lets see if his cylinder is charged first eh?
And if there was a leak on the whip, do you think he might not have noticed it?

So is there something wrong with asking you to call an item by the correct term ? a PRV is not the same as a bleed screw.

How are people supposed to learn the correct & safe way to do something, if not from reading the correct information, identifying the correct parts, in the first place

The first post says the gauge is registering the cyl pressure which indicates to me that it contains air, granted no figure was given.

Yes I would hope he would notice a leak, but stating the whip pressure dropping means the gauge is at fault is still wrong

OK Wilba
260bar should certainly be enough to unstick the rifle valve, but what concerns me is how do you know ?

did you check that with a blanking plug or did it show that when connected to the rifle ?

because if it read that when you connected to the rifle first time around, then you might have already over filled the gun

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