20 Calibre saves a lot of hassle discuss

[PCPShooter]

https://www.airrifleshop.co.uk/colle...nt=29338290450

https://www.uttings.co.uk/p103636-ha...-250-hnftt20p/

https://solware.co.uk/air-pistol-acc...rget-trophy-20

https://www.thewolfman.co.uk/20/hn-f...ns-of-250.html

https://drapers-airguns.co.uk/ammuni...r-20-x500.html

https://www.henrykrank.com/handn-fie...-250-pellet26/

[angrybear]

Here we go again......177 does not produce a tighter group than a .22 at a known distance, but it is the most accurate due to errors with range, and the need to be so much more accurate in range estimation. Just look at the scores put in by people like Tench in both calibres. It is impossible to get quite as high a score in real conditions such as HFT comps and hunting with a .22

I used .22 for 25 years until going .177 for everything. .22 is great over 12ft lbs and works better there.
.20, waste of time due to lack of benefit and lack of choice and availability of pellets. Anyone who shoots any competition shooting sports knows that you need a good choice of pellets to make a big difference, in fact all the difference.
Regarding FAC air, I think that they have their uses in a very few specific circumstances, but I am looking at .22 and HMR next time I renew my SGC, and go FAC as well. I need 90 yards rabbits on my land and I dont think .22 FAC air will give me that.

Oh I am going to put up a .22/.177 debate next week just to get everyone going again!!

Wow what's that, Page 2 of the 'Ladybird' beginners guide to becoming a narrow minded tin chicken hunter ?

[PCPShooter]

As JSR are out off stock of Trophy's had a quick look to see who had stock, doesn't seem to be a scarcity of 20 cal in stock, which work in 90 percent of 20 cals (as everyone who has a 20 cal will confirm even when Superfield were an actual option, which never shot as tight or efficient generally)

The JSB go in a few better, and at FAC can be better, lots of them in stock too

Of course if you want to mess about all the time with different pellets ......or pay a lot for that certain Czech brand .....go figure

[brian747]

Wow what's that, Page 2 of the 'Ladybird' beginners guide to becoming a narrow minded tin chicken hunter ?

Well put AB, some knock the .20 calibre without ever trying it,i love it
thats all that matters.!!
atb brian

[Bob6500]

Absolutely love my 20 cal in fac.....

[the growler]

Absolutely love my 20 cal in fac.....

Try the jsb heavy in 20cal. If you need any al send you some.

[gsxrman]

Wow, like cave man mentality. "Need big rock, smash puny creature". Accuracy is what kills period. Unless of course there is enough power to blow quarry up. I want to salvage and eat the rabbits I shoot, so clean head shots only.

.177 do produce smaller groups. Variation in slugs should be measured as a percentage and not a constant across calibres. The only constants are the range and the conditions. At 30+m my prems go through the same hole, how on earth can a larger calibre beat that., and they defo wont at 55.

Reason for FAC, produces flatter trajectory and can use body shot. 7.9 grain .177 is probably as flat if not flatter than a 16-20 gran .22 FAC, unless ridiculous power level but then accuracy wavers with pellets as they cant cope so ya switching to something hence just use a rim.
Body shots, I haven't taken a body shot for years and never will again.
I just don't get the "compromise" as .20 is not as flat and forgiving as .177 and those that believe in hitting power is a must, they don't hit as hard as .22. There go pointless. I'm not saying they wont do the job but they don't offer a big enough advantage over the other two calibres to warrant changing unless they become the new .177 in lead free.

[PCPShooter]

Wow, like cave man mentality. "Need big rock, smash puny creature". Accuracy is what kills period. Unless of course there is enough power to blow quarry up. I want to salvage and eat the rabbits I shoot, so clean head shots only.

.177 do produce smaller groups. Variation in slugs should be measured as a percentage and not a constant across calibres. The only constants are the range and the conditions. At 30+m my prems go through the same hole, how on earth can a larger calibre beat that., and they defo wont at 55.

Reason for FAC, produces flatter trajectory and can use body shot. 7.9 grain .177 is probably as flat if not flatter than a 16-20 gran .22 FAC, unless ridiculous power level but then accuracy wavers with pellets as they cant cope so ya switching to something hence just use a rim.
Body shots, I haven't taken a body shot for years and never will again.
I just don't get the "compromise" as .20 is not as flat and forgiving as .177 and those that believe in hitting power is a must, they don't hit as hard as .22. There go pointless. I'm not saying they wont do the job but they don't offer a big enough advantage over the other two calibres to warrant changing unless they become the new .177 in lead free.

What 20 calibre airguns have you actually owned - ?

[angrybear]

Wow, like cave man mentality. "Need big rock, smash puny creature". Accuracy is what kills period. Unless of course there is enough power to blow quarry up. I want to salvage and eat the rabbits I shoot, so clean head shots only.

.177 do produce smaller groups. Variation in slugs should be measured as a percentage and not a constant across calibres. The only constants are the range and the conditions. At 30+m my prems go through the same hole, how on earth can a larger calibre beat that., and they defo wont at 55.

Reason for FAC, produces flatter trajectory and can use body shot. 7.9 grain .177 is probably as flat if not flatter than a 16-20 gran .22 FAC, unless ridiculous power level but then accuracy wavers with pellets as they cant cope so ya switching to something hence just use a rim.
Body shots, I haven't taken a body shot for years and never will again.
I just don't get the "compromise" as .20 is not as flat and forgiving as .177 and those that believe in hitting power is a must, they don't hit as hard as .22. There go pointless. I'm not saying they wont do the job but they don't offer a big enough advantage over the other two calibres to warrant changing unless they become the new .177 in lead free.

Just wrong plain & simple,
your 7.9gn would be doing about 806fps at 11.4fpe, the same velocity (to give the same trajectory) from a 16gn .22 is only around 22.5 fpe, when most FAC .22's run 30 fpe for around 950fps, which is well within stable velocity for a diabolo pellet.
I explained the Compromises all 3 calibres make in a post above,
or to make it even simpler to understand, take every parameter of the shot .177 will win 1 or 2, but come last in others, likewise so will the .22, but .20 will be runner-up in every aspect & not come last in anything,
Which clearly makes it the best of the 3 compromises.

[gsxrman]

What 20 calibre airguns have you actually owned - ?

None, but a mate bought .20 rapid, which he later sold for the exact model Rapid 17FT that I still have. Both my .22 Taunus (out to 40 yards), and Rapid 17 (any range) would tear the .20 a new one.
I wont own one after others experience at our club etc. Sub 12, .177 is all ya need. My opinion.

[gsxrman]

Just wrong plain & simple,
your 7.9gn would be doing about 806fps at 11.4fpe, the same velocity (to give the same trajectory) from a 16gn .22 is only around 22.5 fpe, when most FAC .22's run 30 fpe for around 950fps, which is well within stable velocity for a diabolo pellet.
I explained the Compromises all 3 calibres make in a post above,
or to make it even simpler to understand, take every parameter of the shot .177 will win 1 or 2, but come last in others, likewise so will the .22, but .20 will be runner-up in every aspect & not come last in anything,
Which clearly makes it the best of the 3 compromises.

I said 16-20 grain and I said "probably" as flat if not flatter depending upon weight of the .22.
I agree that the larger heavier pellet retains more energy, that's why I have tested lots of pellets at 10-11 grain in .177. Advantage, none just make trajectory more loopy.
As it has been determined that 3ftlb of energy is what is needed to dispatch a rabbit, and my 7.9 has tested at just under 5 at FT range, and still goes through both eyeballs at this range there is more than enough "hitting" power left. Not to body shot a rabbit, and risk wounding it, but clean head shot instant kill. I do the same with rats at 5-10 yards squirrels at 40+ etc. So tell me again the advantage of another calibre or FAC air to me that would out perform my Rapid/Prem combo.

[Steyr]

.20 is not the best compromise. The word compromise to mean it lays between ideal.

Its just a cal that simply did not off. In sub 12, .177 makes more sense.

.22 hits in FAC or higher cals.

In .177 and .22, you have a huge range if cals and styles with ultra light to ultra heavy that. 20 can't even get close to. If you like .20 and think its a magic cal we'll fine thats your perogative. Select your own level of delusion but .20 inhibits your choices

[angrybear]

I said 16-20 grain and I said "probably" as flat if not flatter depending upon weight of the .22.
I agree that the larger heavier pellet retains more energy, that's why I have tested lots of pellets at 10-11 grain in .177. Advantage, none just make trajectory more loopy.
As it has been determined that 3ftlb of energy is what is needed to dispatch a rabbit, and my 7.9 has tested at just under 5 at FT range, and still goes through both eyeballs at this range there is more than enough "hitting" power left. Not to body shot a rabbit, and risk wounding it, but clean head shot instant kill. I do the same with rats at 5-10 yards squirrels at 40+ etc. So tell me again the advantage of another calibre or FAC air to me that would out perform my Rapid/Prem combo.

Well obviously with such a perfect shooter as you must be, no other calibre in either sub 12 or FAC could possibly offer you anything.

Where as, I accept that being human, I do make errors and as such I want any & every advantage, no matter how small, to be in my favour.
Sub 12, .20 gives me the best of both camps in one package, While FAC allows instant kills from body shots &/or much longer range when needed.

And basic physics shows that a 10-11gn pellet will be loopier than a 7.9gn, if shot at the same energy, because it's muzzle velocity will be lower.

[angrybear]

The word compromise to mean it lays between ideal.

Yes it does, and as I pointed out above ALL calibres have some sort of compromise in their design, (at sub 12)
but .20 is the only calibre that never comes bottom in any test parameter comparison.

[gsxrman]

Yes it does, and as I pointed out above ALL calibres have some sort of compromise in their design, (at sub 12)
but .20 is the only calibre that never comes bottom in any test parameter comparison.

Come on "cave man", I never said I was a perfect shot, I do hold my own though. I pretty much hunt on my own now, unless I go out with the old man, who is 78 and still believes in .177. Mainly because I seen too many shooters "wound" or "eventually die" after they have run or flew for a while. I don't like it so its "head shots are us" club for me on all prey.
I know my abilities and my limits, I don't switch from calibre and only shoot 2x sub 12 air rifles now, which luckily both love the prem. No FAC at all. I know this kit inside out. The few .20 rifles I have used are not as accurate as mine and don't fly as flat as the prem .177, so they lose out on 2 accounts there. I put down to the calibre and not the rifles, so why bother. I used .22 for years along side .177 but past 40 yards it is a nightmare getting the range yard perfect for .22. Up to 40 yards is fine probably of all calibres if the kit can produce the accuracy required, but for me the do it all and therefore the best sub 12 calibre is .177.