7.3 Heritage?

[Smokeless Coal]

7.3 is all down to "good reason" and the most common is part of a collection.

There is a guy whos a Germans in ww2 fanatic, got the vehicles got the full authentic uniform and wanted the sidearm to add to his collection.

A collector of Enfields is applying to add some Webleys to his military rifle collection.

A film buff, wants to add to his collection of all the guns used in 007 films.

I have all the muzzle loaders used by US army pre and post civil war, my next to add is a S&W Scofield.

We have a collector of all the AMT products, most of his are currently abroad but he wants to bring them back over here. That a historical collection and on technical grounds.

We have another who collects historical target pistols.

Another has the collection of literature and a comprehensive knowledge and would like to add the actual firearm.

Nobody should suggest to a person what their collection should consist of its an individual thing and they would then have to satisfy their firearms department of their legitimacy.

Its not even about shooting them for many owners, they get them out, clean them and discuss them with other collectors then put them away again. Theres no competition other than comparison against others.

[majex45]

7.3 is all down to "good reason" and the most common is part of a collection.

There is a guy whos a Germans in ww2 fanatic, got the vehicles got the full authentic uniform and wanted the sidearm to add to his collection.

A collector of Enfields is applying to add some Webleys to his military rifle collection.

A film buff, wants to add to his collection of all the guns used in 007 films.

I have all the muzzle loaders used by US army pre and post civil war, my next to add is a S&W Scofield.

We have a collector of all the AMT products, most of his are currently abroad but he wants to bring them back over here. That a historical collection and on technical grounds.

We have another who collects historical target pistols.

Another has the collection of literature and a comprehensive knowledge and would like to add the actual firearm.

Nobody should suggest to a person what their collection should consist of its an individual thing and they would then have to satisfy their firearms department of their legitimacy.

Its not even about shooting them for many owners, they get them out, clean them and discuss them with other collectors then put them away again. Theres no competition other than comparison against others.

Exactly so Smokeless Coal. That is precisely the answer.

[tacfoley]

Sir - I asked a simple question, and did not expect to get a patronising response.

I asked, how do ordinary law-abiding shooters actually to get to shoot their historical firearms? Or, more to the point, how do law-abiding shooters first obtain suitable handguns of historical interest and fulfil their desires to shoot them?

Like, it seems, many of you actually do.

After handing in a large number of handguns back in 1997, only to find a couple of years later that many of them would have qualified as historical firearms, I, too, might care to spend some of my hard-earned military pension on some of the guns I used to shoot freely, but without the necessity of getting on a couple or airplanes to do it.

It still seems to me to be a chicken and egg situation - as a shooter of Swiss and Swedish classic rifles, I would like to have a collection of Swiss and Swedish classic handguns, too, but not just to look at.

If your friend who collects target pistols has Jurek Free Pistol #2 - THAT was mine. So was the 1936 Walther Olympia with all the accessories...

tac
www.sigforum.com
www.swissrifles.com
www.northwestfirearms.com
www.canadiangunnutz.com
www.muzzleloadingforum.com
www.whitesmoke.za.net
www.gunboards.com
www.vcrai.com
President - Vintage Classic Rifle Association of Ireland
Clark Rifles Inc, Brush Prairie WA
Life Member NRA

[Smokeless Coal]

Not intended to be patronising, its just how it is.

You cant just go out and buy a one off old gun and ask for 7.3. It needs to be an addition to a collection or a particularly rare item.

Your initial collection might be of rifles which a certain pistol would fit in with. It might be deacts or replicas and you want an example of the real thing to go with them. You might just have a big library of relevent literature and a wealth of knowledge and wish hands on experience to augment it. Your Swiss/Swedish sounds a valid route.

I have been told in the past that I should not suggest how to go about starting a collection. The whole point being the other person should have the thought of what their collection will be and then others might try to advise how to go about it.

I think theres 8 heritage centers in the UK now or I might be out of date. A few of them are very restrictive of who can join them. Bisley seems the easiest to get into but their fees are high.

Normally you join as a member then pay for storage by the box or by the number of guns, and a range fee when you attend. Heritage sessions are only open to those who have 7.3s. Its a lock in, you are handed your box, do your thing, hand in your box and then are allowed to leave. Nobody is allowed to touch anyone elses gun.

Buying and moving them is awkward, you could buy a 7.1 obsolete caliber and keep at home until you want to fire it then transfer to 7.3 and store it at a site. To buy a 7.3 is via a section 5 dealer who arranges transfer to your site, all pistols are of course sec 5.

Getting one is basically asking for a variation on your FAC.

There are a few places on the web that advertise sec5 sec7.1/3 firearms. As an FAC holder you know how hard it is to specify what you are going to buy, you might ask for a .455 russian then a .455 S&W turns up and you have to arrange a quick variation.

[majex45]

Buying and moving them is awkward, you could buy a 7.1 obsolete caliber and keep at home until you want to fire it then transfer to 7.3 and store it at a site. Note that it is very difficult to transfer the 7(3) BACK to 7(1)
Getting one is basically asking for a variation on your FAC. You need to provide a justification for each purchase. This can be from one page to many, depending on the firearm and theme of the collection

See above

[majex45]

[QUOTE=tacfoley;5357210]Sir - I asked a simple question, and did not expect to get a patronising response.
I'm not sure we are patronising you, it certainly wasn't my intention. What you must realise is that you cannot shoot your pistol like you used to do. There are restrictions, put on the owner by the Home Office, such as no competition for example.

I asked, how do ordinary law-abiding shooters actually to get to shoot their historical firearms?
You have to store your pistols at a Designated Site, there are about half a dozen in the country (Bisley, Bedford, Herts & Essex for example) Or, more to the point, how do law-abiding shooters first obtain suitable handguns of historical interest and fulfil their desires to shoot them? You need to purchase them off a specialized dealer in section 5aba pistols. They have to be delivered to the designated site by a S5 dealer or carrier. You may not take them home, or indeed, out of the site at all.

Like, it seems, many of you actually do.
Yes, there are about 30 regulars at the Bisley shoots, which are organised by an offshoot of the HBSA and another club that organise their own shoots. You will need to check how other sites arrange their shooting days.

After handing in a large number of handguns back in 1987, only to find a couple of years later that many of them would have qualified as historical firearms, At the risk of sounding patronising, had you bought and read a copy of the Firearms Act, you would have known about 7(3). Although I had to instruct the NRA about section 7 as they had no idea I, too, might care to spend some of my hard-earned military pension on some of the guns I used to shoot freely, but without the necessity of getting on a couple or airplanes to do it.

It still seems to me to be a chicken and egg situation - as a shooter of Swiss and Swedish classic rifles, I would like to have a collection of Swiss and Swedish classic handguns, too, but not just to look at. As a collector of Swiss rifles you should be able to qualify as a collector of Swiss pistols. The Act requires that both the owner (collector) AND the firearm qualify. If you specialisation is Swiss pistols you could have the Luger type and the Petter/SIG pistols. There is no cut off date on S7(3) but it gets progressively harder to justify pistols as they get newer. It is VERY hard to get a pistol made after 1998

If your friend who collects target pistols has Jurek Free Pistol #2 - There are Jureks in the collectionTHAT was mine. So was the 1936 Walther Olympia with all the accessories... There is at least one and possibly two in the collection.
By the way, if you are a life member of the NRA (I assume NRA of GB) and assuming you have asked them, then why haven't they offered any advice, after all, they charge enough.

[tacfoley]

Thank you, that makes it a lot clearer, not more welcome, just a lot clearer. No, I'm not a member of the NRA UK, but the 'other' one. As for modern firearms of Swiss/Swedish origin, they have no interest for me whatsoever. I'd be looking at Swedish Nagant and Husqvarna and Swiss Ordnance and maybe a Model 29 - all of which are readily available to me in the USA.

It does, however, look to be exceedingly costly here, both as far as the actual firearms are concerned, and the travelling needed to go visit them, although Bedford is not too far from me. I am more concerned, however, with the manner in which these hyper-expensive firearms can and cannot be used. It seems more like visiting an old relative serving a life-sentence with no parole, and about as much fun. 'Locked in', and 'handed the box with your gun so that you can get on with it', presumbly in a solitary, serious, non-competetive, historically considered and non-enthusing way, sounds as much fun as prising your own eyes out with a trowel.

Thanks, but no thanks.

tac

[Smokeless Coal]

It seems more like visiting an old relative serving a life-sentence with no parole.
Yep thats about the size of it.

It need not be expensive though. If the site is close enough your joining can include your regular target shooting and range use with your section 1s, range fees you would pay wherever you shoot. The pistols dont have to be pristine perfect examples, you probably wouldnt want to shoot it if it were. The storage rental is the worst extra cost, the sites have an increased insurance and security outlay to recover.

The lock in is not a solo thing, heritage sessions tend to be maybe once a month so quite a few attend together for a chat and a shoot. You cant keep ammo for your 7.3 at home so theres a fair bit of reloading done on site. And a lot more chatting and discussion than a regular shooting session.

[tacfoley]

Thanks for that footnote to what was rapidly becoming a lesson in futility for me...

Now that you've clarified a few points I'm afraid that 'see but can't touch' and 'non-competetiveness' of the meet would have me howling to be let out from being 'locked in'.

Add to that your comment that it need not be expensive due to range fees and so on...hmmmmm. My present club does not charge any range fees at all unless you are a on-spec visitor [with an FAC, of course] who just has to zero his gun at a convenient range. I shoot on the inside ranges twice a week and outside also twice a week, being as I'm a retired old f&rt.

And I found Model 29 Swiss Luger, too - exactly what I wanted. Sadly, the gun-murderers had gotten to it before I expressed any interest, but I can tell you that at £3500 there wasn't a lot of interest around.

Thanks and 'bye.

tac

[majex45]

I'd be looking at Swedish Nagant and Husqvarna and Swiss Ordnance and maybe a Model 29 - all of which are readily available to me in the USA. It is possible to personally import a S7(3). You only need a S5 dealer to take it from the port (or airport) to the Designated Site. I have done this twice, once from Spain and once from Belgium. You will also find that live firers are less money than deacts. However a Model 29 is going to be expensive wherever and whatever. The others will be much more modest.

It does, however, look to be exceedingly costly here, both as far as the actual firearms are concerned, and the travelling needed to go visit them, although Bedford is not too far from me. Herts & Essex are near Braintree and is a lively collector's club. Bisley is ferociously expensive. presumbly in a solitary, serious, non-competetive, historically considered and non-enthusing way, Not so, provided you enjoy the company of like minded collectors. There is no competition allowed and you may not handle anyone else's pistol but you can learn a whole lot from the other collectors. Unfortunately, you cannot try-before-you-buy. If you are interested in collecting, it will suit you, if you are only interested in shooting "as before" this is not possible. These are the limited means by which collectors were able to save some of the country's heritage, it is not a "loophole" through which everyone can ride. If it is not for you, so be it, I enjoy it but then I'm an inveterate collector.


tac

See above

[Jim McArthur]

. . . there's a Section 7.1, and a Section 7.3: and one of these categories allows you to keep an operable condition cartridge pistol at home, but you can't shoot it, or possess ammo that fits it.

And the other category allows you to shoot such a pistol, at certain approved ranges: but you have to store the pistol, and the ammo for it, at such a range.

And in either case, the pistol in question has to be historically significant, in some way, correct? How defined?

But isn't there some other category for operable conditions pistols chambered for obsolete calibers, that allows you to purchase same without a license?

And doesn't the latter include deactivated cartridge pistols, antique muzzleloading pistols (how defined?), and deactivated modern muzzleloading pistols?

Sorry for all the questions: but this is very confusing to me.

I think that I understand Sections 2, 1, and 5 OK.


Jim

[ferrit]

Hi
I am just in the process of filling in the forms for variation on my licence for section 7

[Triumph]

I guess the first question would be, why do want 2 x .455 Webley's on sec 7:1....or do you mean 1 x .38 and 1 x .455