Curious : Does anyone use or has used a single stroke pneumatic for target shooting?

[Garvin]

Fascinating inside info wonky, thank you.

I've often wondered how far the top level match shooters would go to select their pellets - maybe even down to microscopic level to guarantee a blemish free lead surface and perfectly true flight?

[BigAl]

Just one question. Could the usual power level of 10m guns have anything to do with the fact that the German power limit for air guns is around 6 ftlb? 10m is mostly a German sport (something do do with occuping powers not allowing firearms after the war and a British officer suggesting: so go shoot an airgun).

Alan

[Garvin]

Just one question. Could the usual power level of 10m guns have anything to do with the fact that the German power limit for air guns is around 6 ftlb? 10m is mostly a German sport (something do do with occuping powers not allowing firearms after the war and a British officer suggesting: so go shoot an airgun).

Alan

I don't think so Alan because the German 7.5 joules power limit came into force on 1st January 1970 and 10m guns had already been made in large numbers for 15 years or more to shoot with velocities of 500-600fps.

[wonky donky]

Just one question. Could the usual power level of 10m guns have anything to do with the fact that the German power limit for air guns is around 6 ftlb? 10m is mostly a German sport (something do do with occuping powers not allowing firearms after the war and a British officer suggesting: so go shoot an airgun).

Alan

The 10m air gun was originally used indoors in the winter as a cheap training method for 50m & the like, thats why the design is/was so similar to the 50m guns, One indication of this is Walthers advert for the LP53 recoil!
It became very popular World wide in the end, with World, European & local championships, The sport was introduced into the Olympics for the first time at LA in 1984

[BigAl]

I Stand corrected.
As it happens I used to use a Gamo SSP target gun for practicing the standing back when I was shooting 3p, since I've had "ME" had to give up shooting 3p just cant keep lifting a free rifle 8Kgs is a bit of a lump! never was good enough to be really good either and 10M is a really demanding course of fire!

Alan

[Greylag]

Hello BigAl (Alan)

Very interesting information mate, thanks a lot for that. I'm sure the competition target shooters will have no objections to you sharing your excellent knowledge with them.

By the way did you ever test batches of pellets for hunting style airguns or was it just for the match/competition shooter?

Would the tests if applied to .22 pellets for hunting I wonder reveal a similar sort of finding to those you tested for the competition rifles.

I would assume you were testing .177 pellets? would the increased ft/lbs and extra weight of the .22 pellets make them more likely to be less accurate? I usually test each pellet for zero as I replace my stock of them.

Regards

[Bowman26]

I use it to shoot Airgun target class silhouette. Even out at 45 yards that 10m rifle is damn accurate. At only 600 fps w/7.9g pellets it can get pushed around by the wind easily but that makes it a challenge considering the rifle was designed to shoot 1/4 that distance. Even the chickens are nearly twice as far away as the rifle was made to shoot.

Also use it to shoot mini sniping style matches. If your not familiar with this game it uses 9mm casings placed at 35 yards and is shot off the bench or a rest for the forearm and supported by the body otherwise. The case ID is .355 so a .177 pellet is 1/2 its diameter. Tough shooting even with a rest.

Bowman

[wonky donky]

Hi Geylag,
Glad I've said something of interest..at last!

I've not done a great deal of testing with .22 air but have done some & found in general very good batch's of .22 tend to be rather more common "off the shelf" than .177

I know that altering average velocity just 20/30fps from one test to another has little or no affect on group size if all other things are equal.Over & above that other variables come into play, but it's fair to say from my own experience, at 50m indoors it is possible for a 30ftlb .22 air rifle to consitantly produce 10 shot groups of sub 1" with the correct batch of pellet. Shooting any further than that well lets say do I think sub 1" groups consistantly possible at 100ydsErrrrrrrrrrrrm NO! On occasions perhaps! People do win the lottery!

I have done a fair amount with .177 sporting pcp's & Ft.guns. I once tested a BSA Hornet std rifle indoors at 45yds from a test rig with a batch of Webley Lazerdome, it consistantly shot 10 shots in a group o/d of sub 10mm using a mylar overlay, now I call that impressive! but it was average to rubbish with FTT, Lazerpell, Crossman to name a few, nothing wrong with the other makes just not as good as in this rifle, another Hornet would have produced differing results no doubt! & I might add, I believe this performance to be considered exceptional, not the norm at this range! Don't forget I'm not talking C-C

My FWB P70 converted from 10m to 11.5ftlb, would shoot 10mm dia 10 shot groups at the same range with some batch's of JSB, & Lazerdome,

My steyr LG100 was a "nightmare" it was hopeless even at 6yd with most stuff except RWS Superdome of all things, a pellet that only ever proved to be average in all my other tests, but still very good. Some pellets were that bad I was getting 2 or 3 shots keyhole at 10m, I converted it to shoot FT at 11.5ftlb problem went away, I couldn't be bothered to try & find out why probaly not put together right! never liked the gun anyway!

The test rig used would not, nor was designed, to test break barrel guns, so I don't have any information to share on that.I have no reason to believe a good quality well tuned BB would not shoot as well as a quality PCP.
I did do a little testing using the same method Eley & Anschutz use. ie clamp the barrell, but I've never been convinced by this method, it seems too crude to me, but thats just my opinion!

I did alot of rimfire tests too with Anshutz, Walther, Krico, Diana plus a few sporting rifles & you would not believe how poor some of even the best quality ammo grouped, like 7 out of 10 seperate holes at 50m ouch!!

[Greylag]

Hello Wonky,

Apologies for mixing yourself and Big Al up. I was thinking the person who tested the pellets was Big Al.

Interesting information from all none the less. I'm pleased to see that the .22 pellets don't seem to need as much sorting as the .177, saves me a lot of hassle

I only use the Titan Mohawk for hunting and it is very accurate with 5.51mm AA fields straight off the shelf, as I said I check the zero each time out just to be sure.

Thanks again all for the information, most helpful.
Regards

[wonky donky]

Fascinating inside info wonky, thank you.

I've often wondered how far the top level match shooters would go to select their pellets - maybe even down to microscopic level to guarantee a blemish free lead surface and perfectly true flight?

No, believe it or not once the batch is selected, they are used straight from the tin with just a visual check normally. Alot of shooters won't accept this statement, but, "There is nothing you can do to individual pellets to make them shoot a tighter group", ie sizing, lube etc. Selecting pellets from a batch for size & weight may well help at extended ranges but it's marginal, there's alot more to it than that! If the batch does not suit your gun then picking pellets of the same size & weight or resizing, relube etc, from within that batch will not give you the results your after!!


I will give you one instance though, of how beneficial it is IF you have the ability required;

Some years ago, Chris Hecter, many times Briish Champion 10m, asked if I would test his FWB & his pellets, I set the test up & concluded with the best will in the world he would not be able to score over 588 ex 600, to which he replied, "well 588 is the highest I'm shooting at the moment"

His rifle was fine so I set about finding a good batch of pellets for him out of about 150 batch's that wasn't too hard!

I gave him a batch of RWS R10s that he used the next week in the British championshios at Aldersley, Score 592 & a new British Record at that time!

Sorry for going on using 100 words when 20 will do, but I've spent the best part of 30yrs batch testing with air guns & I could just go on & on &.