Fas 6004 v 604

[zooma]

Sorry but I believe I'm reading a lot of BS on this thread.

The 6004 is made by the same company using the same parts and tooling.

Won't happen or course because the people spouting this ill informed nonsense are I believe just making stuff up.
Feel free to prove me wrong.

The 6004 is not made by the same company using the same parts and tooling as the 604.

When the 6004 was first introduced and being marketed the new business owners (two brothers if my memory serves me right) contacted myself and many others to promote their new business and their new design SSP air pistol that was intended to be a "next generation" variant of the successful and popular 604 that had been manufactured by the previous FAS company.

For what its worth, I thought that the newly designed 6004 was a good looking and nice handling air pistol that showed a strong resemblance to its highly regarded 604 predecessor and I was very tempted to buy some of them for our club as it was no longer possible to buy any more new 604 pistols due to the original manufacturers no longer being in production.

A trawl through the previous threads on the BBS regarding the various 6004 owners experience's will help you to see that these claims were certainly not bullshit but genuine concerns and disappointments from new owners who had spent their cash on these poorly executed models that had all the hallmarks of being rushed into production without being thoroughly tested

The 604 was (and still is) a highly regarded SSP air pistol. The 6004 is not so highly regarded.

I am aware of the problem mentioned regarding the fracturing of the upper shroud casting on a few 604 air pistols but I have been lucky with every Mk1 and Mk2 604 that I have owned and/or used over the years to have never seen or experienced this fault - but they did exist as the pictures on this thread clearly shows.

If the current 6004 air pistols have been revised and had the early faults corrected I would be pleased to own one as I still like the look and feel of them.

The 604 was the first air pistol that I stripped and re-sealed many years ago. I found the 604 to be a very simple air pistol to work on and I would not hesitate to strip another alongside a 6004 to compare them to see if any of the components would actually fit each other. If they did, it could provide a useful source of spare parts for the many ageing 604 air pistols that will need some replacement parts as years go by.

It would certainly be an interesting exercise.

[I. J.]

The 6004 is not made by the same company using the same parts and tooling as the 604.

When the 6004 was first introduced and being marketed the new business owners (two brothers if my memory serves me right) contacted myself and many others to promote their new business and their new design SSP air pistol that was intended to be a "next generation" variant of the successful and popular 604 that had been manufactured by the previous FAS company.

For what its worth, I thought that the newly designed 6004 was a good looking and nice handling air pistol that showed a strong resemblance to its highly regarded 604 predecessor and I was very tempted to buy some of them for our club as it was no longer possible to buy any more new 604 pistols due to the original manufacturers no longer being in production.

A trawl through the previous threads on the BBS regarding the various 6004 owners experience's will help you to see that these claims were certainly not bullshit but genuine concerns and disappointments from new owners who had spent their cash on these poorly executed models that had all the hallmarks of being rushed into production without being thoroughly tested

The 604 was (and still is) a highly regarded SSP air pistol. The 6004 is not so highly regarded.

I am aware of the problem mentioned regarding the fracturing of the upper shroud casting on a few 604 air pistols but I have been lucky with every Mk1 and Mk2 604 that I have owned and/or used over the years to have never seen or experienced this fault - but they did exist as the pictures on this tread clearly shows.

If the current 6004 air pistols have been revised and had the early faults corrected I would be pleased to own one as I still like the look and feel of them.

The 604 was the first air pistol that I stripped and re-sealed many years ago. I found the 604 to be a very simple air pistol to work on and I would not hesitate to strip another alongside a 6004 to compare them to see if any of the components would actually fit each other. If they did, it could provide a useful source of spare parts for the many ageing 604 air pistols that will need some replacement parts as years go by.

It would certainly be an interesting exercise.

Well, thats the final comment and end of this subject for me - and I didn't get called once!

[zooma]

Well, thats the final comment and end of this subject for me - and I didn't get called once!

Hello once!

[brucieboy]

I had a 604 years ago, that's why I bought a 6004, it was supposed to be an updated 604. Mine went in the bin. Tiny steel screws into soft aluminium, glass rear sights etc. The final nail in the coffin was the bracket that holds the barrel in the over- lever. It kept coming loose and letting the barrel move back failing to seal against the breech seal.
Nipped it up a few times and the tiny bolts stripped. There's not enough metal to drill out and re-tap for a bigger bolt so it was a write off.
Never had a problem with the old 604.

[I. J.]

Hello once!

I had a 604 years ago, that's why I bought a 6004, it was supposed to be an updated 604. Mine went in the bin. Tiny steel screws into soft aluminium, glass rear sights etc. The final nail in the coffin was the bracket that holds the barrel in the over- lever. It kept coming loose and letting the barrel move back failing to seal against the breech seal.
Nipped it up a few times and the tiny bolts stripped. There's not enough metal to drill out and re-tap for a bigger bolt so it was a write off.
Never had a problem with the old 604.

So another victim of tiny screws into soft aluminium.

[candleman]

I had a 604 years ago, that's why I bought a 6004, it was supposed to be an updated 604. Mine went in the bin..

No it didn't
Stop lying.
No one throws an item they paid hundreds of pounds for in the bin.
Now you're just making stuff up and I don't believe you ever owned one.

[brucieboy]

No it didn't
Stop lying.
No one throws an item they paid hundreds of pounds for in the bin.
Now you're just making stuff up and I don't believe you ever owned one.

Ok then, not all in the bin, I did sell some bits.

http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....highlight=6004

But the rest went in the bin. So there You need to back up calling someone a liar with some provable fact, your opinion doesn't matter.

[zooma]

Ok then, not all in the bin, I did sell some bits.

http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....highlight=6004

But the rest went in the bin. So there You need to back up calling someone a liar with some provable fact, your opinion doesn't matter.

Hi Brucieboy,

Thanks for providing the proof to "candleman" that you did own a 6004 (it was not necessary) and for showing us how much of it of any value was left after you decided to bin the rest of it.

Forty quid is not a lot of cash to have left after selling anything that could be sold. If you had years of good shooting with it and put many thousands of pellets through it I would still hope that it had a little more value left in it and that any worn or broken parts could be replaced.

Binning a modern target air pistol is almost unheard of. Target pistols usually have an easy life, are seldom taken outdoors to get wet or muddy, and are usually kept clean and very well cared for.

Was there nothing you could do to repair it or find a good gunsmith that could fix it for you?

Your experience is another of the many bad ownership experiences that worries me enough not to buy a new one at this moment. If they ever get the problems fixed it would be a really nice SSP for use at 10 meters or in the 6 yard MPL competitions.

I gave my son my last 604 mk2 several years ago and for me the 6004 would have been the ideal replacement - and it still may be, as no manufacturer can afford to ignore the feedback they must have been receiving from their importers/distributor/dealer network and customers since they started their new business, and hopefully they will respond by making the changes it needs and their customers deserve.

Sorry your 6004 experience ended so badly for you - but I am still hopeful that a mk2 may come along and that it will be made from a harder alloy and have all the known faults taken care of.

Stay safe!

[andyals]

The 6004 is not made by the same company using the same parts and tooling as the 604.

I've just ordered a spare seal set for my 6004 and was assured that they were identical to the 604.
I'm curious about this rear sight issue.
This seems to be the main grudge against the 6004.
Nothing has been mentioned about its overall reliability and accuracy and these are the things that interest me.
I suspect Candle man is correct.
The "new inferior to old" is an argument prevalent in many fields, especially motoring and it's usually unfounded.
I've been using my 6004 for quite a while now and have not experienced one single issue.
It certainly performs just as well as the 604 I owned in the late 80s.
The rear sight on mine has undergone a series of adjustments without issue.
Honestly I didn't mean to open a can of worms here and had no idea of the hostility I was going to be bombarded with simply for expressing an opinion.
Based on my actual experience of owning and using this great pistol I'd say its equal to its predecessor in every way and is still the great target pistol it once was.
I suspect the people who are going to spit nails at me for daring to suggest that do not have any ownership experience themselves.

[zooma]

I've just ordered a spare seal set for my 6004 and was assured that they were identical to the 604.
I'm curious about this rear sight issue.
This seems to be the main grudge against the 6004.
Nothing has been mentioned about its overall reliability and accuracy and these are the things that interest me.
I suspect Candle man is correct.
The "new inferior to old" is an argument prevalent in many fields, especially motoring and it's usually unfounded.
I've been using my 6004 for quite a while now and have not experienced one single issue.
It certainly performs just as well as the 604 I owned in the late 80s.
The rear sight on mine has undergone a series of adjustments without issue.
Honestly I didn't mean to open a can of worms here and had no idea of the hostility I was going to be bombarded with simply for expressing an opinion.
Based on my actual experience of owning and using this great pistol I'd say its equal to its predecessor in every way and is still the great target pistol it once was.
I suspect the people who are going to spit nails at me for daring to suggest that do not have any ownership experience themselves.

When people have spent good money and found that their purchase was not as good as they hoped it would be, it is not surprising that they have a "grudge" or that they may wish to share their own experience to try to help other BBS members from suffering the same disappointment and possible financial loss.

Personally, I very much doubt that anyone on here would give any credibility to the "new inferior to old" argument just for the sake of it, and believe those that have been disappointed with their 6004 air pistols have a genuine and factual reason for saying so.

I am disappointed that anyone should be accused of BS for reporting their findings regarding their ownership experience with the 6004 air pistol. This is as bad as suggesting that they are inventing problems that don't exist.

It is not only the rear sight that has caused previous (and current) owners some concern. Premature "wear and tear" and failings associated with an unsuitable quality alloy are also a real concern.

Your personal experience with your own 6004 does tend to be at odds with most other 6004 owners who have not enjoyed such a good ownership experience, but it is genuinely good to hear from a long term user/owner who actually is happy with his purchase. How many years have you owned your 6004, and was it bought brand new or used?

The reason for asking this is because if yours is a more recently manufactured 6004, it would give some hope to the rest of us that would still like to buy one, as it would suggest that some (or all) of the problems that others have experienced may have been resolved.

Sharing the same seal kits is a bonus for those of us that may like to own the 6004 (and the 604) in the future, but it does not confirm that both pistols share the same internal parts - only that the sizes of the seals used in both may be the same?

[candleman]

When people have spent good money and found that their purchase was not as good as they hoped it would be, it is not surprising that they have a "grudge" or that they may wish to share their own experience to try to help other BBS members from suffering the same disappointment and possible financial loss.

Personally, I very much doubt that anyone on here would give any credibility to the "new inferior to old" argument just for the sake of it, and believe those that have been disappointed with their 6004 air pistols have a genuine and factual reason for saying so.

I am disappointed that anyone should be accused of BS for reporting their findings regarding their ownership experience with the 6004 air pistol. This is as bad as suggesting that they are inventing problems that don't exist.

It is not only the rear sight that has caused previous (and current) owners some concern. Premature "wear and tear" and failings associated with an unsuitable quality alloy are also a real concern.

Your personal experience with your own 6004 does tend to be at odds with most other 6004 owners who have not enjoyed such a good ownership experience, but it is genuinely good to hear from a long term user/owner who actually is happy with his purchase. How many years have you owned your 6004, and was it bought brand new or used?

The reason for asking this is because if yours is a more recently manufactured 6004, it would give some hope to the rest of us that would still like to buy one, as it would suggest that some (or all) of the problems that others have experienced may have been resolved.

Sharing the same seal kits is a bonus for those of us that may like to own the 6004 (and the 604) in the future, but it does not confirm that both pistols share the same internal parts - only that the sizes of the seals used in both may be the same?

The problem here is that literally nothing you said there can be backed up with citation so yeah I'm going to say it
You are talking out of your arse.
It's nothing to do with justifying ones own purchase.
I'm a motorcyclist and hear the same oil crap spouted by boring old farts about Triumph bikes
Oh the new one's aren't as good.
Yes they are.
Loads better.
Using your logic, because I know a few people who had serious issues with Ford cars, all ford's are rubbish.
I doubt very much you are talking from any real world experience
You're whats known in biking terms as a bar stool road tester

[zooma]

Nothing has been mentioned about its overall reliability and accuracy and these are the things that interest me.

You should read the other contributors postings :-


"I had a 6004 two days before it broke. (the back sight). I took it back to the suppliers and got a refund" IJ


"I have seen a few 6004’s through pony club (low use, carefully used) with loose pins, oval pin holes that just suggest that the frame metal is just not as good, the triggers are also just not as good. So these 5-6 year old guns are already showing signs of wear whereas 40year old 604’s generally just need a £6 set of seals if not working and maybe a coat of paint if badly worn. The old 604’s definitely had more hand finishing on the internals. Where there are breakages on the 604’s it’s usually the top cover where it sweeps up over the grip and that is usually as a result of being dropped." sgibbar


"Never used a 604, but had shocking experience with a 6004, poor consistency, pellet fussy, poor build quality, replaced it with a Gamo Compact which after spending about £5 on some files, wet&dry and some time to fettle trigger was everything the 6004 should have been for 1/3 of the price" clipper.


"I had a 604 years ago, that's why I bought a 6004, it was supposed to be an updated 604. Mine went in the bin. Tiny steel screws into soft aluminium, glass rear sights etc. The final nail in the coffin was the bracket that holds the barrel in the over- lever. It kept coming loose and letting the barrel move back failing to seal against the breech seal.
Nipped it up a few times and the tiny bolts stripped. There's not enough metal to drill out and re-tap for a bigger bolt so it was a write off.
Never had a problem with the old 604." brusieboy


If you trawl back through the other 6004 threads that have been in this section previously you may find a few more comments of some interest.


Hope this helps.

[andyals]

You should read the other contributors postings :-


"I had a 6004 two days before it broke. (the back sight). I took it back to the suppliers and got a refund" IJ


"I have seen a few 6004’s through pony club (low use, carefully used) with loose pins, oval pin holes that just suggest that the frame metal is just not as good, the triggers are also just not as good. So these 5-6 year old guns are already showing signs of wear whereas 40year old 604’s generally just need a £6 set of seals if not working and maybe a coat of paint if badly worn. The old 604’s definitely had more hand finishing on the internals. Where there are breakages on the 604’s it’s usually the top cover where it sweeps up over the grip and that is usually as a result of being dropped." sgibbar


"Never used a 604, but had shocking experience with a 6004, poor consistency, pellet fussy, poor build quality, replaced it with a Gamo Compact which after spending about £5 on some files, wet&dry and some time to fettle trigger was everything the 6004 should have been for 1/3 of the price" clipper.


"I had a 604 years ago, that's why I bought a 6004, it was supposed to be an updated 604. Mine went in the bin. Tiny steel screws into soft aluminium, glass rear sights etc. The final nail in the coffin was the bracket that holds the barrel in the over- lever. It kept coming loose and letting the barrel move back failing to seal against the breech seal.
Nipped it up a few times and the tiny bolts stripped. There's not enough metal to drill out and re-tap for a bigger bolt so it was a write off.
Never had a problem with the old 604." brusieboy


If you trawl back through the other 6004 threads that have been in this section previously you may find a few more comments of some interest.


Hope this helps.

Ive searched for these accuracy and reliability issues but can't find anything.
Could you please provide some links and please don't say, I'm not going to research it for you.
I have serious doubts about what's being claimed here and would love to see actual evidence.
I was curious about the claim made by Candle man about the top strap cracking which I noticed you avoided addressing.
I researched this and found it is true and indeed FAS have redesigned this area
If something goes wrong with my rear sight at least I still have a pistol to shoot, whereas if that top strap goes I'm stuffed.
I'm reading a lot of claims here but no verification with evidence.
Hopefully you'll put that right in your next post although I somehow doubt you can
In the meantime this is interesting.

https://www./community/index.php?thr...-strap.340657/

I can't seem to get the link to work but if you go to the airgun forum and look under pistols you'll see someone posting about "dreaded top frame cracking"

[candleman]

Ive searched for these accuracy and reliability issues but can't find anything.
Could you please provide some links and please don't say, I'm not going to research it for you.
I have serious doubts about what's being claimed here and would love to see actual evidence.
I was curious about the claim made by Candle man about the top strap cracking which I noticed you avoided addressing.
I researched this and found it is true and indeed FAS have redesigned this area
If something goes wrong with my rear sight at least I still have a pistol to shoot, whereas if that top strap goes I'm stuffed.
I'm reading a lot of claims here but no verification with evidence.
Hopefully you'll put that right in your next post although I somehow doubt you can
In the meantime this is interesting.

https://www./community/index.php?thr...-strap.340657/

I can't seem to get the link to work but if you go to the airgun forum and look under pistols you'll see someone posting about "dreaded top frame cracking"

Andy don't pay too much attention to these forum sages.
The only person who can judge is you.
What you're up against here is people who just say you must take their word for it and will never back up their claims with verifiable evidence
You'll notice they always say "do a search"
If it was that easy they'd be posting up links themselves to tell you how terrible these pistols are but they won't and they can't.
There maybe something in the rear sight issue l, just as there is with the top frames cracking on the 604 (notice how they ignore that one) but pretty much everything else they're claiming is unverifiable tosh.

[mikec4]

You should read the other contributors postings :-


"I had a 6004 two days before it broke. (the back sight). I took it back to the suppliers and got a refund" IJ


"I have seen a few 6004’s through pony club (low use, carefully used) with loose pins, oval pin holes that just suggest that the frame metal is just not as good, the triggers are also just not as good. So these 5-6 year old guns are already showing signs of wear whereas 40year old 604’s generally just need a £6 set of seals if not working and maybe a coat of paint if badly worn. The old 604’s definitely had more hand finishing on the internals. Where there are breakages on the 604’s it’s usually the top cover where it sweeps up over the grip and that is usually as a result of being dropped." sgibbar


"Never used a 604, but had shocking experience with a 6004, poor consistency, pellet fussy, poor build quality, replaced it with a Gamo Compact which after spending about £5 on some files, wet&dry and some time to fettle trigger was everything the 6004 should have been for 1/3 of the price" clipper.


"I had a 604 years ago, that's why I bought a 6004, it was supposed to be an updated 604. Mine went in the bin. Tiny steel screws into soft aluminium, glass rear sights etc. The final nail in the coffin was the bracket that holds the barrel in the over- lever. It kept coming loose and letting the barrel move back failing to seal against the breech seal.
Nipped it up a few times and the tiny bolts stripped. There's not enough metal to drill out and re-tap for a bigger bolt so it was a write off.
Never had a problem with the old 604." brusieboy


If you trawl back through the other 6004 threads that have been in this section previously you may find a few more comments of some interest.


Hope this helps.

Candleman; I think this might answer your comment about reference sources.

BTW, Zooma, I. J. and myself have around 120+ years experience of pistol shooting at club, county and national level - we try to help other members on this forum as best we can. Unfortunately some are just born sceptics .