Bullpups - Sinclair C5 of the future discuss ?

[angrybear]

While I really don't like the appearance of 99% of bullpups, a compact rifle has advantages in overgrown woods & in/around farm buildings.
because all the weight is in tight to your body they can be very well balanced & appear lighter to carry.

I'm sure when the first Rapids came out people hated the bottle & said it's a fad, no one will buy them in 6 months

[rancidtom]

Another thing to consider, especially for a close quarters gun is the sight line to barrel distance, totally the wrong way to go.

[Shed tuner]

Another thing to consider, especially for a close quarters gun is the sight line to barrel distance, totally the wrong way to go.

100%, but the flipside is a scope 3-4" above the bore really helps flatten out the trajectory (vs sightline) in the 30-40 yard range, so that's a bonus, espcially with a .22 (25-35 yards though)



Both are .177, 11.5 FP, shooting JSB.
The red line is the regular rifle, sight 2" above bore. The green line is the bullpup, sight 3.5" above bore.

The KZ is 0.5", so each of the purple lines are + or - 0.25" - i.e. not enough to worry about.

Both rilfes are zeroed so the pellet doesn't rise above the 0.25" mark.

As you can see, the regular rifle has a PBR of 14-36 yards (aim dead on at those ranges, and your pellet will hit within 0.25")
The bullpup however has a PBR of 21-42 yards - much more useful in an open hunting situation, but crap for close range.

*note the numbers may not be 100% accurate, but they are close and they illustrate the difference....

Horses for courses...

[JerryD]

100%, but the flipside is a scope 3-4" above the bore really helps flatten out the trajectory (vs sightline) in the 30-40 yard range, so that's a bonus, espcially with a .22 (25-35 yards though)



Both are .177, 11.5 FP, shooting JSB.
The red line is the regular rifle, sight 2" above bore. The green line is the bullpup, sight 3.5" above bore.

The KZ is 0.5", so each of the purple lines are + or - 0.25" - i.e. not enough to worry about.

Both rilfes are zeroed so the pellet doesn't rise above the 0.25" mark.

As you can see, the regular rifle has a PBR of 14-36 yards (aim dead on at those ranges, and your pellet will hit within 0.25")
The bullpup however has a PBR of 21-42 yards - much more useful in an open hunting situation, but crap for close range.

*note the numbers may not be 100% accurate, but they are close and they illustrate the difference....

Horses for courses...

Great summary of the benefits of the higher sightline, but these aren't just bullpup specific: as long as you have a high enough cheekpiece this can be done with any gun and a tall bridge rail. FT shooters use this regularly, as it increases the tolerance on ranging error for longer distances.


.

[rancidtom]

While I really don't like the appearance of 99% of bullpups, a compact rifle has advantages in overgrown woods & in/around farm buildings.
because all the weight is in tight to your body they can be very well balanced & appear lighter to carry.

I'm sure when the first Rapids came out people hated the bottle & said it's a fad, no one will buy them in 6 months

Personally I think they are another gimmick, entirely the product of advertising to the "wanna be Action Man". Now as every advertiser knows there's a new crop of mugs queueing with their wallets flapping every time they open this month's "PopGun News" so this is why they are still selling. As we well know Daystate depend on these people, they survive by selling "limited edition" models to the fashion victims. Of course we also see the same with the other manufacturers, the major ones who hadn't joined the DullPup fashion parade quickly adopted them in fear of losing a good percentage of the marketplace, BSA and Weihrauch were late to the feeding frenzy but they have now followed the trend.

[les allam]

I got a fx Wildcat mk1 after having a shoot with one at my old Ft club.
It was different enough to be interesting and I liked the look of it.
Like others have said, the weight and balance is unusual ,for me it’s to light at the barrel end for unsupported shooting.
I am used to shooting big heavy springers and my bull pup is a different beast altogether.
I need to shoot it a bit more to gel with it.
Les..

[clipper]

For shooting in limited spaces I think they have a niche, and if I had nothing else would probably get used to the compromised hold for everywhere else

[EricP]

I used to have this “bullpups are crap” prejudice even though I used to shoot a Steyr AUG armalite in Oman in the eighties, and remember it fondly.
When I went to air rifles I found lovely highly regarded rifles that I did not get on with and others I did. I shoot well with Walthers and Anschutz, crap with Air Arms, OK with Weihrauch. Just had to find the ones that suited me best.
Thought I would never use a bullpup again.
Then I got a Zbroia Kozak for my 60th birthday and again it fitted me. I have two PCPs (the other is a full rifle) and out of the two I like the Zbroia more, and shoot it more. In spite of the opinions voiced on this thread, at the age of 64 I have no pretensions to being Action Man, do not wear Camo in polite society and have not been known to say “Hut, Hut, Hut” even under my breath.
So to sum up, anyone who says “bullpups are crap” is in the same camp as one who says “rifles are crap” or “pistols are crap” what they are really saying is “I prefer to voice my prejudices rather than check to see whether a gun fits me regardless of the form factor”.
Bullpups are not a “fad” that will disappear, there are too many, they have been around too long and are too popular.

[severnsider]

I used to have this “bullpups are crap” prejudice even though I used to shoot a Steyr AUG armalite in Oman in the eighties, and remember it fondly.
When I went to air rifles I found lovely highly regarded rifles that I did not get on with and others I did. I shoot well with Walthers and Anschutz, crap with Air Arms, OK with Weihrauch. Just had to find the ones that suited me best.
Thought I would never use a bullpup again.
Then I got a Zbroia Kozak for my 60th birthday and again it fitted me. I have two PCPs (the other is a full rifle) and out of the two I like the Zbroia more, and shoot it more. In spite of the opinions voiced on this thread, at the age of 64 I have no pretensions to being Action Man, do not wear Camo in polite society and have not been known to say “Hut, Hut, Hut” even under my breath.
So to sum up, anyone who says “bullpups are crap” is in the same camp as one who says “rifles are crap” or “pistols are crap” what they are really saying is “I prefer to voice my prejudices rather than check to see whether a gun fits me regardless of the form factor”.
Bullpups are not a “fad” that will disappear, there are too many, they have been around too long and are too popular.

All of the above! I was very peasantly surprised when I tried a Zbroia Kozak - all my "prejudices" evaporated very swiftly. A good fit and easy to hold on point of aim. A joy to shoot.

[Biker_Bob]

I think they're very good.
I like the weight in the shoulder feel, as opposed to the front heavy feel of a normal rifle (especially a springer).
I like that they will fit in a rucksack, so can be carried discretely and even carried on a motorcycle.
And I guess that for me, I look at everything from an engineering point of view. If an airgun can be made short and light (and in the case of PCP it can) then why have one that's long and heavy?
Since a rifle has to be at least 24" long here that's the smallest we can go, so when bullpup shopping I look for the one that's closest to that.

[Kes]

I think they're very good.
I like the weight in the shoulder feel, as opposed to the front heavy feel of a normal rifle (especially a springer).
I like that they will fit in a rucksack, so can be carried discretely and even carried on a motorcycle.
And I guess that for me, I look at everything from an engineering point of view. If an airgun can be made short and light (and in the case of PCP it can) then why have one that's long and heavy?
Since a rifle has to be at least 24" long here that's the smallest we can go, so when bullpup shopping I look for the one that's closest to that.

Yep. Me too.

I had my HW100K converted to a bullpup design back in 2007, purely because it made it more comfortable to shoulder and shifted the weight balance backwards which for me is always better. It was my HFT gun and my scores improved greatly after it's reconfiguration. The scope to barrel height did make some close-up shots a bit tricky but with practice and holdover knowledge I was able to overcome that. Although I sold it when I stopped doing HFT a few years back, it remains the most comfortable air rifle I've ever used (and I've owned dozens and dozens).