Scope levels

[I. J.]

[4end]

Quite correct. Scope levels are a complete waste of time and money. If you believe you can set up a scope to be true to level and plumb you are sadly mistaken. The reasons being is that the small levels are so inaccurate and too short to give a meaningful reading off any of the narrow surface areas found on a gun. Those that fit around a scope are even worse as to set them correctly you need a datum and there is not one. If there is a need to 'level' a scope, align the vertical cross hair with a plumbline or the corner of a building. In doing this, it can only tell you that the crosshair is vertical and not that the gun is level across its axis asthe scope has revolved slightly in the scope cradle and the rifle is not necessarily level, no datum, no good.

[I. J.]

[Bluenicoli]

Thanks very much for all the input. And the level based puns! I totally get what's been said about the accuracy of smaller levels etc but I'd still like to give it a go. There is a flat spot on the stock at the back of the action so would use this as a level point. As for my door frames my house is 120 odd years old so I'm thinking they might not be true! Will have a look at those recommendations and see how I get on. Cheers all

[Portzy]

One thing to try is, if you have a perfectly level worktop or bench then using a carpenters square lined up with the recoil pad screws can sometimes be an option.

Another is by using a piece of flat bar, say 1/8th or 1/4 inch by a foot or so, and balancing this on your known flat on the rifle. This allows you to use a slightly larger, and closer to accurate, level. You just extend the flat bar as a counter balance against the level.

Finally, when you know your rifle is level it's best to set the scope using a plumb line.

Not very scientific I know but it gets you close enough for the real world.

[Adam77K]

Quite correct. Scope levels are a complete waste of time and money. If you believe you can set up a scope to be true to level and plumb you are sadly mistaken. The reasons being is that the small levels are so inaccurate and too short to give a meaningful reading off any of the narrow surface areas found on a gun. Those that fit around a scope are even worse as to set them correctly you need a datum and there is not one. If there is a need to 'level' a scope, align the vertical cross hair with a plumbline or the corner of a building. In doing this, it can only tell you that the crosshair is vertical and not that the gun is level across its axis asthe scope has revolved slightly in the scope cradle and the rifle is not necessarily level, no datum, no good.

Au contraire. The only datum which matters is the scope tube above the bore. This is why I use one of these.
https://www.brownells.co.uk/EXD-ENGI...CLE-INSTRUMENT

Then I set one of the levels that fit around the tube to agree with the instrument.

The narrow block self centres on the barrel (or action of a springer). The wide block self centres on the end of the objective lens

[Travis299]

Hang a line or small diameter rope from a tree limb, with a medium weight, out 20/30 meters and this will give you a perfectly vertical reference for your scope. Align your scope using bags on a table and some folks use the center line of the butt pad or any other flat surface on the rifle to position the rifle level in a vertical position. You are now able to align your scope to your vertical reference line/rope. Position your scope and tighten screws/bolts in a round robin fashion to the manufactures specs which are usually 15/18 in/lbs.

My personal opinion is that this adjustment is NOT that critical with pellet rifles and only comes into play with PB past 400/600 meters.

[Jesim1]

I’m surprised at some of these responses to be honest, many seem to completely miss the point that a bubble level not only gives you a good help in getting your rifle and scope level - although I agree it’s not perfect (happy to get a perfect workable solution from the doubters mind ) - but it also gives you consistency shot to shot, which is better than no measure of consistency is it not

I guess all those companies like Tier One and Daystate etc are wrong to put these in there products, and those on this thread know far better?

Who would have thought it

James

[I. J.]

Didn't the HFT lads ban spirit leveles for several years because they were an advantage?

[harvey_s]

Who can't see within a degree when your crosshairs aren't level just by looking down the stock

Similarly who can't see when their crosshairs aren't level in the scope within a degree or two

Finally, who can focus on three things at once - Target, Crosshairs and a Spirit level?

Not convinced by them...

[4end]

I’m surprised at some of these responses to be honest, many seem to completely miss the point that a bubble level not only gives you a good help in getting your rifle and scope level - although I agree it’s not perfect (happy to get a perfect workable solution from the doubters mind ) - but it also gives you consistency shot to shot, which is better than no measure of consistency is it not

I guess all those companies like Tier One and Daystate etc are wrong to put these in there products, and those on this thread know far better?

Who would have thought it

James

If you think you know far better, fine, but I think you know very little to nothing about levelling. The first consideration in a level is, is it accurate and does it have a kitemark and comply with the current British Standards for levels, if they dont, and I am sure that will be the case with these cheap examples then they are worthless. Scope levels made by the companies you mention are like fishing floats, many made to catch the angler who is daft enough to buy them rather than the fish. It does not matter how many levels you affix to a gun, there is no way of knowing the gun is truly sat level in the stock so anything attached to the gun or scope will potentially give a point of reference but not one that is truly level.

[Jesim1]

You'd be surprised, especially on sloping ground how easy it is to be a few degrees out by eye.

In FT sitting you're in a stable position and it's the work of a second to glance at the level to check. As above it's quite an eye opener sometimes when you think the rifle is level and the bubble is way over one side. I like to set the bubble so I can see it in the field of vision of the non-aiming eye so I don't even need to come out of the aim.

A 5 degree cant will cause a 1" shift of POI at 50 yards. Yes of course on flat ground you'd spot 5 degrees a mile off but in a wood, when the ground is undulating, you can't see the horizon, when your shooting position is on a slope and your target isn't on the same level as you it's a lot harder. Very easy to deceive the eye.

I could not have said it better myself

If you think you know far better, fine, but I think you know very little to nothing about levelling. The first consideration in a level is, is it accurate and does it have a kitemark and comply with the current British Standards for levels, if they dont, and I am sure that will be the case with these cheap examples then they are worthless. Scope levels made by the companies you mention are like fishing floats, many made to catch the angler who is daft enough to buy them rather than the fish. It does not matter how many levels you affix to a gun, there is no way of knowing the gun is truly sat level in the stock so anything attached to the gun or scope will potentially give a point of reference but not one that is truly level.

We can only do what we can only do, there will always be limitations in our equipment, but we can only try our best to do the best we can with what we've got. I'm not a level expert, clearly you are, so if you can offer us all a cheap and workable solution, which can be demonstrated to offer significant gains from what we currently use, then I'd love to have your input

Most comp shooters are waiting on your reply in order to gain points