It is though, isn't it? Why do we put up with such rubbish? Maybe we should go for a certificate like the old shotgun license. I would vote for registering and a 40ft/lb limit if I didn't think it would be one step towards getting rid of the airgun forever. Which it would be. Why don't they limit all cars and bikes to 50 horse-power? it would save thousands of lives.
Golly things get on my t1ts this time of night.
Last edited by Hsing-ee; 06-11-2004 at 11:21 PM.
Apparently it was introduced to protect the local airgun industry by preventing the influx of higher powered German guns that could do well above the 10 ft/lbs the then British rifles were doing. Do a search, it's been discussed before.
This PM I was using a cordless drill. It is an evil powerful piece of equipment and even looks like a pistol, I am sure it is Section 5. Yet any 14 year old can buy one off . Ban everything then at last we will be Safe. I mean my parents live three nautical miles from the H-bomb factory at Aldermaston, but then again that is under the control of the Government so I can sleep safe in the knowledge that nothing will go wrong with a few hundred megatons of explosive on their doorstep.
I'm interested too done a search up to a 1000 got no info,does someone know the answer without the searching,it doesn't seem like it was done this week
Sleep well At least it will be quickOriginally Posted by Hsing-ee
Stop worrying about what you haven't got mate, and make the most of what you have got. There's a lot of hunting success and good fun to be got from sub twelve foot pound rifles.Originally Posted by Hsing-ee
FAC will only give you an extra ten yards or so of effective range and the legal limit gives you hassle free official anonymity and the freedom to own as many off ticket guns as you want.
Remember also that in the event of a Government general ban on airguns, FAC ticket holders will be the first to lose their guns.
I seem to remember the 12 ftpd limit came in when the English (BSA/Webley) springers were doing @9 or 10 FP. The yanks were banging out the old pump ups for peanuts which could easily outperform (powerwise) the British guns.(Late 60's/70's)
So.......along comes a 12 FP limit.
From a hunting with airguns point of view I think it is a reasonable limit. One can take all airgun quarry out to 40/50 yards with a 12 FP gun......If you can hit the kill zone. A FAC gun will only give you an extra 10 or so yards as has been stated.
The thing that I find stupid.......In the old days (when the limit was introduced) there were few if any springers that could do 12FP. Now, most decent off the shelf springers will do 13 to 15 FP. They are even running at their best at this velocity. We are literally 'crippling' them to make them run under 12FP. I know there are more exceptions now.....HW80, AA PS etc that will do 20FP+ but it seems madness that an off the shelf springer doing 12.5FP can get you 5 years in the clink. I still don't believe any police force would enforce such madness unless you were shooting old ladies coming out of the bingo hall but technically it's a possibility.
Trouble is......if you made the limit 15FP. People would try and push the guns to 14.999999999FP.......because they CAN.
Just a few thoughts.
Last edited by bozzerman; 07-11-2004 at 08:40 AM.
FAC airguns give you a lot more than 10 yards, as in addition to the trajectory advantages, pellets are less affected by wind, and the kill zone becomes much larger.
Whilst I too have had plenty of sucess with 12 FP airguns, I honestly believe they are marginal for hunting - akin to a .22 LR for fox, for example, where shot placement within 1" is the only way to guarantee a clean kill...
Fair play Jon...
I've never used FAC so I can't really comment....just wonder how many folk can hit the 'kill' at 60+ yards even with a flatter FAC. Maybe the 'kill' area is bigger? Do you still have to hit them in the brain with 24FP(ME) or will a body shot do? A more reasonable range for 12FP hunting is probably max 35 yards for most people anyway. So how about typically 35 yards 12FP and typically quite a bit further with FAC.
We hear all the talk of only hunting when you can put all your pellets inside a 1 inch circle at the range you are going to hunt (12FP). Take a look at the HFT results. Max distance 45 yards with 40mm kill zone......25mm kill out to 35yards. So why don't all the 'hunters' clear every course when you can spend time finding the right position and those metal targets don't move or run off? I know, I know......it's not true simulated hunting and you would never take the shot when hunting if you had to stand on your head etc. Not really talking about the top shooters, but there will be plenty of folk who miss half the course and claim to take bunnies out at silly ranges with 12FP.
Last edited by bozzerman; 07-11-2004 at 09:56 AM.
I have to agree with Jon on this also.Originally Posted by BuddyBoy
Having seen a 33 ft/lb Rapid shoot a 12 shot mag of AA field .22 into a thumbnail sized group at a measured 70 yards (inside a warehouse from a bench); It makes me wonder where this talk of "only gains you an extra 10 or so yards" comes from
Just exactly how do you carry the warehouse and the bench around with you when hunting so you can take those 70 yarders.Originally Posted by GATMAN
....and what were the groups with the same gun out in the wind when shooting freehand?
Sorry......I know nowt about hunting/FAC so I'll shut up.
I just posted 'cause I thought the 12fp was introduced because the British guns did @ 10fp and the yankee pump ups/imported guns were threatening the industry.
I'm quite happy, I do all I want with 12Ft/lb, Club + a bit of vermin.
However I do agree a legal limit is stupid.
There are enough laws for anyone commiting a crime with a gun, no matter what the gun is.
If you hold up a bank whith an imitation 0 Ft/Lb gun it's the same armed robbery.
I can't see any justification or reason for a legal limit.
Crime commited with a gun yes. But what does a legal limit for Air Rifles of 12Ft/Lb actually do?
well I was more worrying about getting five years for a rifle inadvertently doing 13 ft/lbs ...Originally Posted by Phillip Pyne
I think the 12ftlb limit is fine for hunting especially in .177. FAC air is great for pushing the envelope a few yards further, but who can estimate hold over consistantly once it gets greater than 4 inches in the real world. Add windage to the problem and the .22lr comes to the fore or even something stronger if the land permits.
As stated FAC air rifles will open up a new world for you as far as range goes, although I like .177 theres not really that much point as you can more or less choose your velocity in .22, for reliable pellet performance you need to be comforatably below the speed of sound though, my fav is about 950fps with JSBs or around 30ftlb, accurate and humane for 70+ yds if your shooting is up to it and wind permitting, otherwise as stillair says get a rimfire too