Speed & Power: Weihrauch HW45 vs Diana LP8

[kobesean]

This is a mini comparison review of raw power between the classic .177 Weihrauch HW45 (Beeman P1) and the newer .177 Diana LP8 Magnum air pistols; a simple head-to-head for anyone out there who is considering purchasing either and wants to know how the two stack up across three very different pellets and weights.

The HW45 has been around from the mid 1980's, and reviews and comments on this fine pistol can be found online with a minimum of searching. It has long since been recognised as the superlative spring piston air pistol - few others can come close to its build-quality and performance. The LP8 (literally, "Luft Pistole 8") is the 2009 reincarnation of the Diana P5 magnum and is a worthy pretender to the crown, continuing the sibling rivalry between these two German giants.

The competition between the two behemoths of German airgun manufacture, Weihrauch and Original/Diana, is legendary and dates back to the closing years of the nineteenth century. In more recent times the battle has seen more highs than lows for both companies. For air rifles, the HW80 (Beeman R1) was a world-beater for a good number of years until the advent of the more powerful Diana 48/52/54 series. In the UK, the Weihrauch brand has always been a better seller, not least for the simple reason that Weihrauchs tend to offer better value for money i.e. Dianas are generally more expensive, but also because of the superb Weihrauch Rekord trigger. Now that mail-order rivalry has all but disappeared, this difference in price is more pronounced than ever, and while the new T06 trigger in current generation Dianas is every bit as good as the Rekord, for a lot of people Dianas are still a secondary consideration when considering a new springer.

Unlike German air rifles, which generally have to be produced in at least three different flavours (5.53 ft/lbs, 12 ft/lbs and full power) their air pistols find a happy, coincidental restriction in terms of both simple physics and legislation: the strict German 7.5 joule power limit fits in nicely with the rules and regulations of a number of different countries, including the UK. In other words, the HW45 and LP8 are basically the same pistols wherever in the world you choose to buy one.

There is, as is often the case, another relatively new kid on the block in the shape of the Browning 800 Mag air pistol. However, it is not included for comparison here for the simple reason that it represents appalling value for money for UK buyers. Whereas it retails for only around £80 in the USA, it is not uncommon to find the 800 for sale for close to £200 in the UK which makes no sense whatsoever given that it is manufactured, under license from Umarex (Germany), in Turkey. Quite how the Americans manage to get such a good deal on this pistol, given that Turkey is a lot further from America than it is from Britain, is a mystery or, perhaps not - simply additional evidence that "rip-off Britain" is still very much alive and kicking. Nevertheless, it should not be ignored in the magnum class of spring piston pistols and is also worth investigating. Whilst on the subject of comparative costs, both the HW45 and the LP8 sell for the best part of 300 Euros just about everywhere - quality always costs money, no matter where you do your shopping.

My comparison is basically centred around the relative power of the HW45 and the LP8 (other online reviews will confirm their unquestioned design, build quality and accuracy). In the States, both pistols are heavily marketed as "700 fps" pistols, a common exaggerative advertising ploy using lightweight non-lead pellets. The preferred choice across the pond for attempting to achieve this mythical 700 fps speed seems to be for 5.4gr Gamo Raptor Precision Ballistic Alloy (PBA) ammo. Raptors are quite hard to source in the UK so, for the purposes of this test I have chosen to use Hungarian Skenco 5.4gr and Skenco 4.0gr (plastic + 40% metal mix, designed for "indoor plinking") for the high-velocity comparison, in addition to the more traditional 7.9gr RWS Superpoints.

My trusty HW45 is a few years old, but has never been overly used. For the purposes of this review a new spring and breech seal were fitted and the internals lubed (the piston and compression chamber were, on inspection, both bone dry). The LP8, on the other hand, is brand spanking new, straight out of the box, so one would expect the LP8's numbers to increase slightly over time as the piston seal settles down.

Here are the numbers through the chronograph:

>>7.9gr>>>5.4gr >>>>4.0gr

HW45 LP8 /HW45 LP8 /HW45 LP8

498.5 566.1 /588.1 700.4 /695.2 849.9
503.0 553.4 /594.2 699.4 /701.3 849.4
506.1 558.8 /605.7 700.3 /718.3 834.3
501.9 558.5 /590.1 697.1 /706.9 832.3
500.0 558.3 /594.2 703.5 /704.1 845.3
509.3 558.0 /597.5 702.5 /700.0 838.5
499.3 567.4 /597.6 698.1 /708.3 842.5
502.8 561.0 /592.1 699.9 /703.7 853.4
499.3 550.7 /581.3 695.9 /703.8 831.8
504.9 568.7 /585.0 659.3 /699.3 836.7

498.7 550.7 /581.3 695.3 /695.2 831.8
506.1 568.7 /605.7 703.6 /718.3 853.4
502.1 560.1 /592.6 699.2 /704.1 840.7


Conclusion:

The Weihrauch HW35 is a very consistent performer, but struggles to reach 4.5 ft/lbs with all three pellets. I am not happy with these numbers and will update them later when I have fitted a new piston seal and the new internals have all had sufficient time to bed-in.

Straight from the box the Diana LP8 is blisteringly fast and amazingly consistent. In terms of raw energy at the muzzle it produces 5.5 ft/lbs, 5.9 ft/lbs and 6.3 ft/lbs respectively. The claimed 700fps velocity using non-lead ammo is not only passed, it is left standing in the dust - speeds in excess of 850fps are truly remarkable for a spring-powered air pistol and take the LP8 over the UK limit. It would be interesting to see if an all metal 5.4gr pellet could replicate the 700fps of the metal/plastic Skenco, so I will report back later how both guns perform when I have some of the new 5.0gr Thunderbolts in hand.

Cheers.

Sean.

[Vulcanator]

Hate to rain on your parade but the Browning 800 is the daddy when it comes to power and then some! Check out the following: http://airgun-academy.pyramydair.com/blog/ Its been tested putting out over 500fps shooting .22 RWS Hobby's for around 8ft/lbs! It also can be had for just $150! The HW45 costs $395 and the LP8 is $289.

When it comes to build quality I suspect the Turkish made pistol will not be on a par with the German weapons. Personally I'd probably go for the German pistols myself but not at those prices.

P.S. If your LP8 is making over 6ft/lbs that you claim then you have a Section 5 weapon in your hands-bad news!

[kobesean]

Yep, the 800 also comes in .22 flavour but the LP8 is .177 only - and the 800 is a real bargain Stateside. But, I have read more than a handful of reviews where people have had quality issues with the 800.

Section 5 weapon? nope, worse that that....over 6ft/lbs the pistol is UK illegal, full-stop.

Luckily I only had enough Skenco pellets for the test!

[kobesean]

Updated using 5.0gr Thunderbolt all-metal pellets:

HW45 LP8
622.4 /675.1
628.2 /692.0
635.2 /700.5
643.4 /688.4
607.7 /677.0
636.4 /690.0
624.7 /689.4
584.4 /666.3
575.6 /672.9
647.3 /669.1

575.6 /666.3
647.3 /700.5
620.5 /683.0

Tentative conclusions:

1. The HW45 is getting a little bit better now that it has had a few more shots put through it and is showing a slight power improvement. The HW45 seems to prefer all-metal pellets to the Skenco plastic/metal pellets.

2. The Thunderbolts aren't as well made as the Skenco pellets - the chrony numbers are much more inconsistent across both pistols than with the Skencos.

3. The LP8 likes 5.4gr Skenco pellets more than 5.0gr Thunderbolts and shoots them faster and more consistently, despite the fact that they are a little bit (0.4gr) heavier. However, it can hit 700 fps with either at just under the 6 ft/lbs limit.

Sean.

[StevePerry]

Tested my BSA scorpion pistol .177 which is over 25 years old and still has the original spring and washers. 500fps with RWS superdome 8.2gr and 525fps with eley wasps 7.5gr.

http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/p...8022007014.jpg

[nick46]

The Hw45 is still the one to buy then in the UK. Worst case scenario your LP8 is confiscated and tested is it possible this very light weight pellet could be used as one of the test pellets landing you in a heap of trouble?

[ikarma70]

Yep, the 800 also comes in .22 flavour but the LP8 is .177 only - and the 800 is a real bargain Stateside. But, I have read more than a handful of reviews where people have had quality issues with the 800.

Section 5 weapon? nope, worse that that....over 6ft/lbs the pistol is UK illegal, full-stop.

Luckily I only had enough Skenco pellets for the test!

Worse than that?...whats worse than a section 5 firearm?....posting you have a section 5 firearm on a public forum where some members are police officers.

what village did you escape from?

[kobesean]

Worse than that?...whats worse than a section 5 firearm?....posting you have a section 5 firearm on a public forum where some members are police officers.

what village did you escape from?

The Skencos are little more than bits of extremely light, plastic-shaped pellet; lacking either accuracy or penetration. They'll put most pistols or rifles over the limit - including yours. In which case you and I probably come from the same village.

[kobesean]

The Hw45 is still the one to buy then in the UK. Worst case scenario your LP8 is confiscated and tested is it possible this very light weight pellet could be used as one of the test pellets landing you in a heap of trouble?

It's a question of individual preference....
Personally, I prefer the LP8 as it's less "clunky" than the 45 and shoots very nicely with 7.0 - 8.0gr pellets. I'd advise giving them both a go.

[Bessa]

From the British 6ftlbs perspective the HW45 is superior.
It was exhaustively tested against a variety of these incl. the LP8 and won hands down (within the 6ftlbs limitation.) at our club.

Quite simply when run into its max of about 590fps with Hobby pellets (spring guide inverted into piston and slight silicone lubrication) it will have the edge in handling and control of recoil owing to the rearward moving piston.
Trigger and sights...also fitting of Dot sights/scopes centrally into integral rails....all see to it that its exceedingly difficult to better for this type of sporting springer pistol.
The LP8 design is really quite an ancient layout, pre-dating the 1st world war (in the case of one model) but the 45 was purpose designed with multi talented input in the mid 80s.

Try controlling the 2 and see how you get on. I usually get about 1/2 the group size with the 45 which is replicated by other club members.
Addition of red dot is a joy, with balance unaffected being centrally placed.
The LP8 with dot sight is utterly combersome and ill balanced a tool as you can try.

[Hsing-ee]

LP8 and Browning 800 are nasty cut-down rifles that should not be called pistols, but 'butt-less carbines'.

A pistol should be pistol-sized (compare whichever you have with a centrefire - and not a Luger Artillery neither!). Or else it is just an exercise in 'mine is more paaaaarful than yours'.

[ateallthepies]

Is an overpowered air pistol classed as a section 5 prohibited weapon? I thought air guns were exempt from section 5?


Steve.

[Hsing-ee]

Is an overpowered air pistol classed as a section 5 prohibited weapon? I thought air guns were exempt from section 5?


Steve.

I think an over-6 ft/lbs airpistol is outside the category of 'exempt' from FAC, therefore it is a pistol-type firearm which you can only own on express permission of the Home Secretary, like a submachinegun or any kind of pistol.

[kobesean]

Thanks for the recent flurry of input lads.

The thread was only intended as a simple side-by-side numbers comparison through the chrony. Aside from the raw data...

I don't target shoot (and would never hunt anything with a pistol) so just enjoy the 45 and LP8 as open-sight plinkers. Yep, they are expensive plinkers - but likely to last a lifetime (my 45 is already nearly twenty years old). My dad prefers the 45 and I prefer the LP8, but shooting-wise there's not much in it. Both will hit a Cola can at 30 meters with ease.

Now, if you want to argue about which will hit the "O" in "Cola" the most consistently...that's another thread.

Cheers.

Sean.

[diydolan]

Nice comparison, I was looking at air rifles for plinking but might consider a pistol now.