Manual; repair of Diana double piston systems

[Micke1]

A general problem is that the Dianas with double piston system (designed by Kurt Giss late 50's), are a little tricky to repair, when the old cork seals are worn out. Sending them to a gun smith will cost a lot. Dianawerk in Rastatt charges about 180 Euros for a repair, which is about the same value as the gun itself (or more).

I have replaced selas and springs in a few (pistols and rifles), and think it is sad to see these fine pieces of air gun history being thrown away just because they are tricky or expensive to repair. The only manual from the factory, for Diana 75, is in German and is not very accurate or detailed.

I live in Sweden and have written manuals (MSWord format) for how to repair these guns.
This manual is in english for Diana 60, but will work to 95% for models 65 and 66 too.

Manual for Diana 75 in swedish. (sorry, I'll translate it to engish some day. There are pictures and stuff you might find useful.)

Manual for Díana 6G air pistol (swedish too....)

If you are interested in sales statistics and prices for old match guns, including the Dianas, I have collected them the last three years from egun.de at this link. This file is updated weekly. File format is XL, and there are some 2500+ prices.

/ Micke

[Phil Russell]

This is a great servise ... thank you.
I do not have any of these models but to have the strip manuals is wonderful. I look forward to the English versions ...
Cheers, Phil

PS: out of curiosity I have just tried the google translator for Swedish to English (free) on a couple of paragraphs for the mod 75 and it seems to work very well....

[Garvin]

That's brilliant, Micke, thank you.

I have posted a Diana mod 65 manual in English <HERE> and disassembly diagrams <HERE>.

We're lucky here in that we have an expert gunsmith, DM80, who can replace the seals on Giss rifles and he charges a lot less than Diana does. But I completely agree with you about the importance of keeping these fantastic old rifles going.

Interesting that you have collected so many sale prices for those match guns on egun. But with such a range of sub-models/features and conditions ranging from "parts only" to "minter", does it tell you very much?!

[supaspark]

I have a 75 manual in English that I could copy when I get my scanner up running if any one wants one.

[Garvin]

I have a 75 manual in English that I could copy when I get my scanner up running if any one wants one.

Yes please.

[supaspark]

A general problem is that the Dianas with double piston system (designed by Kurt Giss late 50's), are a little tricky to repair, when the old cork seals are worn out. Sending them to a gun smith will cost a lot. Dianawerk in Rastatt charges about 180 Euros for a repair, which is about the same value as the gun itself (or more).

I have replaced selas and springs in a few (pistols and rifles), and think it is sad to see these fine pieces of air gun history being thrown away just because they are tricky or expensive to repair. The only manual from the factory, for Diana 75, is in German and is not very accurate or detailed.

I live in Sweden and have written manuals (MSWord format) for how to repair these guns.
This manual is in english for Diana 60, but will work to 95% for models 65 and 66 too.

Manual for Diana 75 in swedish. (sorry, I'll translate it to engish some day. There are pictures and stuff you might find useful.)

Manual for Díana 6G air pistol (swedish too....)

If you are interested in sales statistics and prices for old match guns, including the Dianas, I have collected them the last three years from egun.de at this link. This file is updated weekly. File format is XL, and there are some 2500+ prices.

/ Micke

I wish they would throw them my way especially a 60 and a 72.

[Micke1]

@ Garvin

Thanks for the links to the Diana 65 manual! The pictures are very good!

The main problem I have with the original tool for compressing the springs (fig.5) is that I found it almost impossible to use. (The same tool is in the original manual for Diana 75.) I made one and tried, but to hold the pressure of the springs and at the same time insert the cogwheels, is almost impossible.
That's why I made the spring compressor you can find in the manual for Diana 60.

The next version of the manual for Diana 75 will have this spring compressor too; the parts marked yellow will be updated accordingly.

About the XL-statistics:
There are always a number of factors affecting the price. However, when there is something I know that can, or will affect the price, I have added this as a comment.
It can be if the gun is of some special model, with a bag, defect, with a scope, Tirol model, left-handed, or something else which is a fact.

Condition is not in, since this is very subjective. This means that the average price should be for a gun in "normal" condition.

In three cases, and for FWB300S, I have omitted the prices from the statistics; these were special and really rare models not representative. The numbers are there, but as text.

Old Diana guns are often (Diana 60=about 25%), sold as defect. This because the cork gaskets are worn out and pulverized. Very few FWB300S are sold as "defect".

[Minuteman]

A general problem is that the Dianas with double piston system (designed by Kurt Giss late 50's), are a little tricky to repair, when the old cork seals are worn out. Sending them to a gun smith will cost a lot. Dianawerk in Rastatt charges about 180 Euros for a repair, which is about the same value as the gun itself (or more).

I have replaced selas and springs in a few (pistols and rifles), and think it is sad to see these fine pieces of air gun history being thrown away just because they are tricky or expensive to repair. The only manual from the factory, for Diana 75, is in German and is not very accurate or detailed.

I live in Sweden and have written manuals (MSWord format) for how to repair these guns.
This manual is in english for Diana 60, but will work to 95% for models 65 and 66 too.

Manual for Diana 75 in swedish. (sorry, I'll translate it to engish some day. There are pictures and stuff you might find useful.)

Manual for Díana 6G air pistol (swedish too....)

If you are interested in sales statistics and prices for old match guns, including the Dianas, I have collected them the last three years from egun.de at this link. This file is updated weekly. File format is XL, and there are some 2500+ prices.

/ Micke

There's not many first posts as good as that one made on here!

Good on you.

[Micke1]

Thanks Garvin and Minuteman!

I haven't seen the original manual for Diana 65 before, it has some nice pictures.

The general problem with the original manuals I have seen from Diana for the Giss system is that they describe a tool for compressing the springs (fig. 5 in the Diana 65 manual).
This tool is almost impossible to use, since you are instructed to both press the rear piston in, and while pressing put the cogwheels in. It can be done by two persons, but is still very difficult. Another problem with it is, that the springs tend to curve and can be damaged.
I recommend the use of the spring compressor described in the manual I wrote for Diana 60 for all Giss systems. Observe the long 3.5mm rod which is used to center the springs and prevent them from curving.

About the XL sales statistics:
There will always be lots of factors affecting the prices of the guns. Some are; with scope, Tiroler shaft, special models, "defect", stickers, modifications, with accessories, carrying bag, "no international buyers", ...and a lot more.
Whenever there is something that is a fact, and can or will affect the price, you will find this as a "comment" in the spreadsheet.
Condition is not in, being to subjective. The statistics should give an idea about the price level for an average gun, how common they are, and rough price variations. You can also see trends. One example of this is Anschutz 380.

Regarding Diana 60, some 25% (of 94), are sold as "defect", normally because the original cork seals are gone/pulverized, and the repair is difficult/expensive. Of the more than 1500 FWB300S, only a few were sold as "defect".

Add: This is almost a dubble post to the one above, sorry. I had some problems with logging in and thought the first post disappeared. /Micke

[Garvin]

Thanks to Andy (supaspark) providing the necessary scans, anyone who wants to can see the Diana 75 user manual and disassembly instructions at the bottom of the list >>HERE<<.

Micke, I have one of the original Diana "rod with a handle" type spring compressors. I only ever used it with a Diana mod 60, a few years ago, and it seemed to work OK as I recall. I remember it was hard work to compress the (new) springs while fitting the timing gears but not especially difficult. Maybe it's harder with the larger Giss rifles?

[Micke1]

The original spring compressor has two problems;
1. It is really tricky to hold the pressure and at the same time insert the cogwheels.
2. It only prevents the rear part of the springs from curving/bending.

I had a conversation with a german guy about this and he said that the original tool works fine if you first insert one of the cogwheels and then push the rear piston in, and twist it to the right position with a screwdriver. When in place, (and the cogs are in the right position, you insert the second cogwheel.
Now, this may work if you have someone helping you, but is still quite difficult. We are talking about holding the tool in the exact position <0.05mm for a while.

For this reason I designed the spring compressor (see Diana mod 60 manual), with a rod which you push all the way to the forward piston (to prevent the springs from curving).
In the next version of this spring compressor I will add an adjustable washer making it possible to adjust of the rear piston to its exact position, with a small lever.

/ Micke

[Garvin]

The original spring compressor has two problems;
1. It is really tricky to hold the pressure and at the same time insert the cogwheels.
2. It only prevents the rear part of the springs from curving/bending.

I had a conversation with a german guy about this and he said that the original tool works fine if you first insert one of the cogwheels and then push the rear piston in, and twist it to the right position with a screwdriver. When in place, (and the cogs are in the right position, you insert the second cogwheel.
Now, this may work if you have someone helping you, but is still quite difficult. We are talking about holding the tool in the exact position <0.05mm for a while.

For this reason I designed the spring compressor (see Diana mod 60 manual), with a rod which you push all the way to the forward piston (to prevent the springs from curving).
In the next version of this spring compressor I will add an adjustable washer making it possible to adjust of the rear piston to its exact position, with a small lever.

/ Micke

Looking at your spring compressor it seems like a much better solution.

[jrsvette]

I have taken your Swedish instructions and run through a word translator There several words that did not translale. Could I send you a copy and have you fill in the untranslated words. You may keep the revised copy and post to the forum

[Retracted_Yeti]

I think I have Micke's instructions/strip for the Original 6 pistol in English(supplied by himself IIRC), so if anyone wants a copy, with Micke's permission of course, I can pm it to you.

Cheers.

Roy.

[Micke1]

Havelock Vetinary;

You can download the english version on this link (MSWord file).

F.Y.I. and if of interest; I collect the statistics for old match air guns (Anschutz, Diana, FWB), from egun in Germany at this link. It's an XL-file with sales prices for more 3200 guns presently. This file is updated weekly.

/ Micke