"it's a bit rusty"

[HW777]

Hi Mick, i do like your design for the spring guide, you have made for your Hw77k, how much would you be wanting, if i asked you to make me one up of the same design ? also, have you taken delivery of the 10x40 Bushnell ? Whats your thoughts on this type of mag scope ? and what sort of ranges are you shooting to with it. ATB John. P.S i still cant move that end block off the Hw35, but then ive not got access to some desent tools or workshop.

[T 20]

Very interesting thread, I've got a Mk I 77 with the original Silencer fit, it's in need of a Re blue so I'm looking forward to seeing how it goes. Good Luck!

Hi Paul

To be perfectly honest on my decent guns I would spend the money to have a proper hot blue finish.

As this 77k came for free I'm using it to try my hand at cold rust bluing.

At one point I did consider a "risen from the ashes" type finish on the gun ------ like this.

http://exilecycles.com/index.php/bik...ls/brown-pearl



All the best Mick

[T 20]

Hi Mick, i do like your design for the spring guide, you have made for your Hw77k, how much would you be wanting, if i asked you to make me one up of the same design ?

Hi John

I'm glad you like it but I'm sorry but I don't really want to get involved in making parts for other members.

I have very little free time as it is and I'd only end up letting folks down and getting a bad reputation.

have you taken delivery of the 10x40 Bushnell ? Whats your thoughts on this type of mag scope ? and what sort of ranges are you shooting to with it.

The Bushnell 10X40 landed last week but I've not had time to fit it to the gun yet.

With all my 3-9X scopes I've always had them set permenantly at 9X mag so 10 times is not that different.

The one thing I have noticed is that this scope shows all my other scopes to be a bit crap really.

I may just give my gun mad neighbour the Diana, Dampa mount and scope and let him set it all up for me.

He took early retirement and now he's bored stiff.

ATB John. P.S i still cant move that end block off the Hw35, but then ive not got access to some desent tools or workshop.

Mine came off quite easily with a stiff talking to by Mr Gas Axe.



All the best Mick

[severnsider]

Mick, thanks for the info on the Mk. I 'K' production. Looks like I have a rare one then!

The tight spot in the barrel corresponds with the pinch that Weihrauch put in the barrel to locate the foresight housing. The barrel gets so tight at this point that it's impossible to push a pellet past this point with a brass rod.

Just for interests sake, I pushed a 5.52 Exact through the barrel. It becomes a little harder to push it when it reaches the last 1/2" of the barrel (muzzle end) and the pellet shows clear signs of rifling on both head and skirt. As you say, this tightness corresponds with the nasty nip that Weihrauch put on the barrel to locate the foresight. Interestingly, a pellet pushed only halfway along the barrel and then pushed back down to exit at the breech shows only a minute depth of rifling on the head but plenty on the skirt. Still, it shoots fine!

Regards,

Mike

[T 20]

I spent my dinner time today chopping the 77k barrel down, after reading a few posts and articles on the subject, I approached the job with great caution.

I marked the barrel at 1 foot (I'd like to end up with a full 12 inches ) and set it up in the bandsaw.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...6012006258.jpg

Have it

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...6012006260.jpg

Oops ----- no going back now.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...6012006261.jpg

Now to recrown the barrel after cleaning the end up, I had read the job could be done with a brass screw in a drill and some grinding paste.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...6012006262.jpg

Waste of time that was.

I ended up with a 13mm ball bearing out of a Peugeot 206 front hub wrapped in 360 grit paper.
I screwed this in by hand and it made an excellent job.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...6012006265.jpg


Now the piece of barrel I chopped off I sectioned to find out why I couldn't poke a pellet through it.
It turned out that the last 1 1/2" of the barrel were badly rusted and the bore had closed up, so a chop was the only way to go after all.



All the best Mick

[T 20]

Mick, thanks for the info on the Mk. I 'K' production. Looks like I have a rare one then!

Just for interests sake, I pushed a 5.52 Exact through the barrel. It becomes a little harder to push it when it reaches the last 1/2" of the barrel (muzzle end) and the pellet shows clear signs of rifling on both head and skirt. Interestingly, a pellet pushed only halfway along the barrel and then pushed back down to exit at the breech shows only a minute depth of rifling on the head but plenty on the skirt. Still, it shoots fine!

Regards,

Mike

Hi Mike

Thats because the Weihrauch barrels are choked at the Muzzle.

This rusty 77k isn't anymore so it may be a bit more pellet fussy, if it becomes a major problem then I'll have to rechoke it.


All the best Mick

[Jenny Dipple]

Try soaking the end cap in a jar of plus gas for a couple of days. Try the jaws of a large open end spanner in the trigger space, i use the flat handle of rachet perfect fit; then whack the spanner with a hammer; to tighten first then in the opposite direction to undo! Sorted

[T 20]

Now the piece of barrel I chopped off I sectioned to find out why I couldn't poke a pellet through it.
It turned out that the last 1 1/2" of the barrel were badly rusted and the bore had closed up, so a chop was the only way to go after all.

Here's a picture of it

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...6012006269.jpg


After the barrel chop I rebuilt the action and ran a few shots over the chrono, with the rusty part of the barrel removed I am now getting just over 600fps with Hobbies as opposed to the original 400fps the gun was giving.


Now something I realised after the barrel chop was that I needed to make the stainless steel shroud and trial fit it to the action before I started the cold rust Bluing.
With the shroud made that would leave me plenty of time while the action was rusting to make the stainless underlever and other parts.

Anyway here's the shroud on the action.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...2012006274.jpg
http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...2012006275.jpg
http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...2012006276.jpg
http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...2012006277.jpg
http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...2012006278.jpg


The action is in the sweat box now and slowly rusting so I'll post some pictures of it and describe the method tomorrow.



All the best Mick

[remoman]

fantastic thread! thanks for the pics! have you decided what you want to do with the stock?

[HW777]

Hows the Hw77k coming along Mick ? Have you tested for accuracy yet ?

[T 20]

Hows the Hw77k coming along Mick ? Have you tested for accuracy yet ?

Hi John

I've not tested for accuracy yet but if the barrel chop has screwed things up I'll have a go at fitting another barrel if a rechoke doesn't sort it out.

Don't forget that John Bowkett used to chop the barrels down on field target 77s and didn't rechoke them.

As to how it's coming along see my next post.


All the best Mick

[T 20]

Ok Folks now for the fun bit.

After reading everything I could on Cold Rust Bluing, and having spoken to someone who used to do it, here's what I've found out and been up to.

There are two ways of cold rust bluing I've gone for the easiest and safest way -- which involves rusting the gun in acid fumes.

This method was posted on another gun forum by a chap called Owain Glyndwr (respect to you sir )

First off you need to bung the barrel to stop rust forming in it, then you need a tank to boil water in here's mine with the action at boil.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...12006279-1.jpg

I cleaned the action with cellulose thiners then boiled it in water to clean off any remaining oil before putting in the sweat box.

Here's my very expensive sweat box with the action in it.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...3012006281.jpg

The container in the sweat box contains Mortar cleaning acid (Hydrochloric Acid 16%).
Then I just put a lid on it and left it.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...3012006283.jpg

After fourteen hours I took the lid off and found this.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...4012006285.jpg
http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...4012006284.jpg

Which was just what I wanted to see.

Next I boiled the action in the tank until all the rust had turned black and then I cooled it off in cold water for a while to harden the black rust off.

Then I wire wooled the action to remove all the loose black rust until it looked like this.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...4012006286.jpg
http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...4012006287.jpg

Then I wiped it all over with a damp cloth to remove any dirt and put it back in the sweat box for 23 hours after which it looked like this.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...5012006289.jpg
http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...5012006290.jpg

After boiling and wire wooling it looked like this.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...5012006291.jpg
http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...5012006292.jpg

Then I put it back into the sweat box to rust again, I'll carry on rusting until it stops forming rust.
Then I'll soak it in oil for a few days to cure it.

I've been wearing rubber gloves when handling the action, this is recommended to stop oil from your skin getting onto the steel.

My one balls up was putting the acid directly under the action as the fumes condensed on the steel and stoped the underside rusting -- sorted now.


I'll post some more pictures when finished.



All the best Mick

[HW777]

Hi Mick, that rust bluing is working a treat, but when i looked at your first picture of the rust blue process, i did think the rifles action looked in the same state as when you first got the Hw77, but can now see it works very well, at bluing the metal, how long do you need to boil the metal work for, after sticking it in the acid box ? and whats the problem with the barrel ? since you cut it down.. I remember Mr Bowkett saying you can use a barrel as short as 8 inches, without losing accuracy from a barrel, Have you found a loose spot in the barrel where you cut it down ?

[T 20]

Hi Mick, that rust bluing is working a treat, but when i looked at your first picture of the rust blue process, i did think the rifles action looked in the same state as when you first got the Hw77, but can now see it works very well, at bluing the metal, how long do you need to boil the metal work for, after sticking it in the acid box ? and whats the problem with the barrel ? since you cut it down.. I remember Mr Bowkett saying you can use a barrel as short as 8 inches, without losing accuracy from a barrel, Have you found a loose spot in the barrel where you cut it down ?

Hi John

The idea of polishing metal and then rusting it to get a blued finish does sound a bit weird at first but this is how guns were blued before the hot bluing process was introduced.

Like I said in my last post this is the easiest and safest of the two methods of rust bluing as you never have to touch any acid.

The other method involves mixing two acids and iron filings and painting the gun with the resulting mix then hanging the gun in a damp atmosphere to rust.


I'm obviously still learning about the rust bluing process as I go along but I'm boiling the gun for about 15-20 minutes. I'm probably boiling a bit too often as well, because I'm boiling every 24 hours as I worry about the rust going too far and pitting the metal.


John Bowkett said in the Bowkett files that he chopped the 77 barrels to get rid of the part that Weihrauch crimped and nurled to hold the foresight assembly on.
He did this to improve accuracy as the machining at the factory distorted the bore.

I've had to poke a few pellets through the barrel to check the crown and have found no tight of loose spots in the rifling at all, so I'm pretty confident that the gun will still be accurate.


Anyway I better go and get boiling




All the best Mick

[wil95k]

looking good so far,how many times have you rust/boiled so far? it usualy takes 8-10 times