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Thread: Mainspring data thread

  1. #1
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    Mainspring data thread

    Hi chaps,
    Following on from Jim Tyler's excellent and thought provoking thread in this month's Airgun World Technical Airgun Series relating to the merits of longer, narrower gauge mainsprings, we thought a thread listing the specifications / dimensions of numerous mainsprings would provide a useful reference point.

    If we can compile enough data for different springs, this thread could then be transferred over to the Useful Tips section, providing a handy reference for future use / comparison.

    So, if lots of people could possibly contribute, this would provide a very useful database for various different springs. This would provide the option to experiment and also to match a spring to a gun, once internal dimensional requirements are known.

    Details required ( please feel free to include as much information as possible, especially if I've omitted anything), please provide information such as:-

    Make of spring, eg V-Mach, Titan, Vortek, Maccari, standard fitment etc.
    Length
    Pitch
    Number of coils
    Outside diameter
    Inside diameter
    Spring rate
    Wire diameter
    Known fitment applications

    Jim, please feel free to edit/alter as desired.....

    Thanks in anticipation for all your help/input.
    The Inaugural Spring Rifle Gathering at T20's. June 15, 2013.
    2014 Boinger Bash, June 7 and 8. Open Airgun Gathering, September 6/7, 2014. Boinger Bonfire Bash Nov 8/9, 2014. 2015 Bash June 6/7.

  2. #2
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    Spring rate?

    I know what is is but never seen it quoted on an air rifle mainspring.

    To be honest it's the crux. Spring rate is the key to all this tomfoolery

    Matty
    Hell-bent on compromise

  3. #3
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    posted this in the other thread...will place it here also

    Titan springs grouped by wire size.

    Code:
    Model # 	OD 	ID 	Wire 	Coils 	Length
    TS001    	21 	14.5 	3.25 	31 	280
    TS003   	20.8 	14.73 	3.26 	34 	304
    TS009   	21.35	14.75 	3.3 	27 	280
    TS010   	21 	14.8 	3.1 	27 	230
    
    
    TS005   	19 	13.19 	3 	32 	290
    TS006   	19 	13.3 	2.92 	39 	341
    TS007   	20 	13.8 	3.3 	30 	255
    TS008   	20 	13.8 	3.3 	34 	295
    TS011   	18.8 	12.8 	3 	31 	230
    
    
    TS002   	22.7 	15.5 	3.65 	30 	291
    TS004   	22.62 	15.64 	3.65 	28 	252
    TS012   	22.8 	15.6 	3.65 	41 	410
    ATB.....Tony
    Airgun blog site airguntech.com follow AGT on facebook Follow me on Twitter @AirGunTech

  4. #4
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    Thank you tone. You're a star.
    The Inaugural Spring Rifle Gathering at T20's. June 15, 2013.
    2014 Boinger Bash, June 7 and 8. Open Airgun Gathering, September 6/7, 2014. Boinger Bonfire Bash Nov 8/9, 2014. 2015 Bash June 6/7.

  5. #5
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    Walther LGV spring

    I like this spring..a LOT, if Walther will push LGV spares into the UK I for see this spring being used in many project guns.

    Specs are:

    236mm long, 3.35mm wire, 20.8mm OD, 14.4mm ID, 3.96mm between coils, 33 coils.

    If the rifle you are tuning is optimised this spring will deliver 11fpe in .177 with ease with just 34CC of swept volume and the shot cycle is supreme. Its a soft spring due to the 33 coils but packs a nice punch.

    Titan should make a copy of this one
    ATB.....Tony
    Airgun blog site airguntech.com follow AGT on facebook Follow me on Twitter @AirGunTech

  6. #6
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    I think this thread could be even more useful if people post the spring specifications (and where people can obtain one) that suited a particular gun, and put the year, model and calibre of gun in the thread title.

  7. #7
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    This is my database, compiled as I come across information. As you see, there are some variations.

    MAKE MODEL OD mm ID mm WIRE mm LENGTH mm COILS SOURCE
    B36 ? B36 18.4 12.2 3.1 310 Versandhaus
    AIR ARMS All 21 15 3 270 Ox
    ANSCHUTZ 335 21.4 14.6 3.4 225 Versandhaus
    ASI Magnum 20 14 3 230 Ox
    ASI Other ASI 20 14 3 230 Ox
    ASI Sniper 20 14 3 230 Ox
    BAIKAL IJ512 18 12.4 2.8 240 31 Versandhaus
    BAIKAL 19 13 3 245 Ox
    BSA Airsporter 21 15 3 270 Ox
    BSA Airsporter 20 15 3 265 35 Kasu square
    BSA Airsporter 20.5 14.2 3.15 250 29 Cobham
    BSA Cadet 19.7 13.5 3 185 28 Cobham
    BSA Cadet Major 19.7 13.5 3.05 195-200 32 Cobham
    BSA Goldstar 21 15 3 270 Ox
    BSA Goldstar Kasu square
    BSA Lightning 14 3.25 35 Forum
    BSA Lightning 20.7 14.3 3.2 255 32 Cobham
    BSA Lightning XL 20.8 14.4 3.2 260 33 Forum
    BSA Mercury 21 15 3 270 Ox
    BSA Mercury Kasu square
    BSA Mercury 18.5 12.5 3 300 Versandhaus
    BSA Meteor 19 13 3 245 Ox
    BSA Meteor Mk1 19 13.1 3 225-235 36 Cobham
    BSA Meteor 19 3 254 (10") 35 BBS
    BSA Meteor Super 19 13.1 3 225-235 36 Cobham
    BSA Model L 20 13.5 3.25 150 21 Cobham
    BSA Supersport 21 15 3 270 Ox
    BSA Supersport 12.8 3.25 35 Forum
    BSA Superstar 21 15 3 270 Ox
    BSA "Superstar
    12 ft lbs" 20 14 3 230 Ox
    BSF S20 pistol 16.2 11.2 2.5 155-160 30 Cobham
    CHINESE XS-S2 pistol 16.2 11.2 2.5 123 20 Cobham
    CHINESE BAM Military style 18.8 12.7 3.05 240 33 Cobham
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 16 15.5 11 2.25 195-200 36 Cobham
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 24 18.5 13 2.75 220 30 Cobham
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 26 18.8 13.4 2.7 285 Versandhaus
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 27 19 13 3 245 Ox
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 27 18.8 13.4 2.7 285 Versandhaus
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 28 18.8 13.4 2.7 285 Versandhaus
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 31 21 14.6 3.2 290 Versandhaus
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 34 21 14.6 3.2 290 Versandhaus
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 35 21 15 3 270 Ox
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 35 21 14.6 3.2 290 Versandhaus
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 36 21 14.6 3.2 290 Versandhaus
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 38 21 15 3 270 Ox
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 38 21 14.6 3.2 290 Versandhaus
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 40 21 14.6 3.2 290 Versandhaus
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 45 21 15 3 270 Ox
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 45 21 14.6 3.2 290 Versandhaus
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 48 23 16 3.5 240 Ox
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 48 21.3 14.7 3.3 300 Versandhaus
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 50 21 15 3 270 Ox
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 50 20.75 14.65 3 235 31 Cobham
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 50 21 14.6 3.2 290 Versandhaus
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 52 23 16 3.5 240 Ox
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 52 21.3 14.7 3.3 300 Versandhaus
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 54 21.3 14.7 3.3 300 Versandhaus
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 25 Not 25D 19 13.4 2.7 240 Versandhaus
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 26 TO3 TO4 TO5 20.7 14.7 3 290 Versandhaus
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 28 TO3 TO4 TO5 20.7 14.7 3 290 Versandhaus
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 350 Magnum 23.8 15.8 365 Titan
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 46/300R 20.4 14.2 3.1 295 Versandhaus
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 460 Magnum 21 14.6 3.2 290 Versandhaus
    DIANA / ORIGINAL 6 pistol outer inner (2) "11.2
    7.5" "8
    5.4" "1.6
    1" "275
    145" "62
    47" Cobham
    DIANA / ORIGINAL G27 19.5 13.2 3.15 220 34 Cobham
    DIANA / ORIGINAL G80 19 13 3 245 Ox
    DIANA / ORIGINAL G80 19.5 13.2 3.15 220 34 Cobham
    DIANA / ORIGINAL Panther 23.8 15.8 365 Titan
    DIANA / ORIGINAL Professional 23.8 15.8 365 Titan
    DIANA / ORIGINAL SP50 pistol 11.8 8 1.8 155-160 38 Cobham
    FALKE Mod 70 21 3 235 measured
    FEINWERKBAU 300S (2) 20 14.7 2.65 210 15 Cobham
    FEINWERKBAU Sport 21 15 3 320 Ox
    FEINWERKBAU Sport 20.9 3.05 320 Forum
    FEINWERKBAU Sport 20.7 14.5 3 40.5 Forum
    FEINWERKBAU Sport 124 0.58" 0.118" 12.125" 40.5 Forum
    FEINWERKBAU Sport 124 0.58" 0.118" 13.625" 40.5 Forum
    GAMO Cadet 2000 19.8 13.8 3 230 30 Cobham
    GAMO CF 16/20 21 15 3 270 Ox
    GAMO CF20 19.6 13.6 3 290 Versandhaus
    GAMO CF30 19.6 13.6 3 290 Versandhaus
    GAMO Hunter 1250 22.5 15.5 3.5 390 Versandhaus
    HAENEL 302 20.7 14.5 3.1 255 Versandhaus
    HAENEL 303 20 13.6 3.2 185 28 Cobham
    HAENEL 303 20.7 14.5 3.1 255 Versandhaus
    HAENEL 310 21.5 16.5 2.5 170 30 Cobham
    HAENEL 303-8 20.7 14.5 3.1 255 Versandhaus
    HUNGARIAN "LG 527 outer
    inner" "19.8
    13.3" "13.8
    9.3" "3
    2" "265
    265" "42
    62" Cobham
    MARKSMAN skeleton stock 14.9 10.1 2.4 180 38 Cobham
    MIDLAND GUN Co. ? 1922 model ? 19.3 13.2 3.05 215 33 Cobham
    MILBRO G10 pistol 16.7 13.5 1.6 165 32 Cobham
    MILBRO Scout 17.8 13.3 2.25 135 23 Cobham
    NORCONIA B25 18.4 12.4 3 280 Versandhaus
    NORICA Dragon 18 12 3 320 Versandhaus
    NORICA Goldstar 18 12 3 320 Versandhaus
    NORICA Krono 20 14 3 263 Versandhaus
    NORICA Marvic 18 12 3 320 Versandhaus
    NORICA Mod 56 20 14 3 263 Versandhaus
    NORICA Quick 18 12 3 320 Versandhaus
    NORICA 19 13 3 245 Ox
    RELUM "Tornado/LG322
    outer
    inner" "
    20
    14.4" "
    15
    10.2" "
    2.5
    2.1" "
    260
    260" "
    25
    65" Cobham
    RELUM 21 15 3 270 Ox
    RWS 350 21 14.6 3.18 40 Forum
    SLAVIA 630 Versandhaus
    SLAVIA 631 Versandhaus
    SMK B2 18.8 12.8 3 225 32 Cobham
    TELL 100 18.3 12.3 3 225 Versandhaus
    TELL 200 18.3 12.3 3 225 Versandhaus
    TELL 220 18.3 12.3 3 225 Versandhaus
    TELL 300 18.4 12.4 3 280 Versandhaus
    TELL 400 18.4 12.4 3 280 Versandhaus
    WALTHER "LP53 pistol outer
    inner" "18.2
    12" "13.2
    8.4" "2.5
    1.8" "133
    130" "25
    38" Cobham
    WALTHER Competition Ultra LGV 20.8 3.25 32 25mm preload Jim Tyler measurements
    WEBLEY All except Eclipse or MK3 20 14 3 230 Ox
    WEBLEY Eclipse 23 15 4 260 Ox
    WEBLEY Hawk Mk2 19 13.1 3 225-235 36 Cobham
    WEBLEY Junior pistol 12.5 8.8 1.85 170 34 Cobham
    WEBLEY Mk1 pistol 14.4 9.2 2.6x1.7 175 37 Cobham
    WEBLEY Mk3 21.5 15 3.25 210 29 Cobham
    WEBLEY Senior pistol 14.4 9.2 2.6x1.7 185 37 Cobham
    WEBLEY Sport (Spanish) 19.7 13.7 3 205 28 Cobham
    WEBLEY Xocet XS 19.7 13.1 3.3 230 32 Cobham
    WEIHRAUCH HW25 16.7 2.5 237 34 Forum
    WEIHRAUCH HW30 18.5 12.9 2.8 205 Versandhaus
    WEIHRAUCH HW35 23.2 16 3.6 220 27 Cobham
    WEIHRAUCH HW35 23 16 3.5 240 Ox
    WEIHRAUCH HW35 23 16 3.6 230 Forum
    WEIHRAUCH HW35 23 15.8 3.6 240 Versandhaus
    WEIHRAUCH HW35E 23 15.8 3.6 240 BBS
    WEIHRAUCH HW35 Vixen 20.5 14.6 3.5 220 (worn) Forum
    WEIHRAUCH HW45 16.5 2.4 229 32 Forum
    WEIHRAUCH HW45 16.7 2.5 237 34 Forum
    WEIHRAUCH HW50 20.5 3 250 30 Forum
    WEIHRAUCH HW50 21 3 255 Forum
    WEIHRAUCH HW50 20.7 14.5 3.1 255 Versandhaus
    WEIHRAUCH HW55 21 15 3 270 Ox
    WEIHRAUCH HW57 20.7 14.5 3.1 255 Versandhaus
    WEIHRAUCH HW77 21 15 3 320 Ox
    WEIHRAUCH HW77 20.3 14.3 3.1 290 Versandhaus
    WEIHRAUCH HW77 old 20.3 14.3 3 40 ex Jim Tyler
    WEIHRAUCH HW77 (old)? 20.5 14.5 3 340 Versandhaus
    WEIHRAUCH HW80 23 15 4 260 Ox
    WEIHRAUCH HW80 23 3.9 270 32 Forum
    WEIHRAUCH HW80 23.4 15.8 3.8 280 Versandhaus
    WEIHRAUCH HW85 21 15 3 270 Ox
    WEIHRAUCH HW85 19.8 13.6 3.1 270 Versandhaus
    WEIHRAUCH HW95 19.6 13.6 3 245 31 Cobham
    WEIHRAUCH HW95 19.8 13.6 3.1 270 Versandhaus
    WEIHRAUCH HW97 21 15 3 320 Ox
    WEIHRAUCH HW97 20.3 14.3 3.1 290 Versandhaus
    WEIHRAUCH HW98 19.8 13.6 3.1 270 Versandhaus


    Sorry that format corrupted on a few lines, but it may help.

    Cheers, Phil

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattyBoy View Post
    Spring rate?

    I know what is is but never seen it quoted on an air rifle mainspring.

    To be honest it's the crux. Spring rate is the key to all this tomfoolery

    Matty
    The spring rate is important, Matty, but it's only part of the mix.

    What's most important is the amount of energy that the spring makes available to the piston (total energy minus energy in preload), the static force (the force on the piston in the 'at rest' position), and the force on the piston at the point of release. For any given spring, all of these will vary according to the piston stroke length and preload length.

  9. #9
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    Jim, i would just edit it to get the info into the first post maybe...
    ATB.....Tony
    Airgun blog site airguntech.com follow AGT on facebook Follow me on Twitter @AirGunTech

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe01 View Post
    Jim, i would just edit it to get the info into the first post maybe...
    If the thread grows as I hope, Tony, there could be too much information for that. Let's see how it goes.

    Anyone looking for specific information, say on Titan springs, or spring for a particular airgun, can use the 'Search this thread' option to find what they want.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Russell View Post
    This is my database, compiled as I come across information. As you see, there are some variations.

    MAKE MODEL OD mm ID mm WIRE mm LENGTH mm COILS SOURCE

    AIR ARMS All 21 15 3 270 Ox

    Fantastic database Phil.

    With regard to TX200 Mk3 springs though, the length averages 225mm. Other dimensions are correct.

    I think the 270mm relates to Mk1/2 Tx's.
    Last edited by gunbag; 22-02-2013 at 11:09 AM.
    TX Luvvie

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunbag View Post
    Fantastic database Phil.

    With regard to TX200 Mk3 springs though, the length averages 225mm. Other dimensions are correct.

    I think the 270mm relates to Mk1/2 Tx's.
    Thanks Gunbag ... I will add your info to my database. It just shows that there is variation in sources of information. The Cobham data are from his book and I assume refer to manufacturers' springs; but this is not certain.

    Cheers, Phil

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Russell View Post
    Thanks Gunbag ... I will add your info to my database. It just shows that there is variation in sources of information. The Cobham data are from his book and I assume refer to manufacturers' springs; but this is not certain.

    Cheers, Phil
    What a great the thread! Well done Phil for your info!!! Must have taken you a while to get that together! Thanks for sharing.

    Will ad my stuff when I get a chance.

  14. #14
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    Spring constant is approximately (all dimensions mm and for steel springs):

    10^7 * wire diameter^4 / (outside dia-wire dia)^3 / number of coils

    to give the newtons per meter spring constant. Change 10^7 to 10^4 to give newtons per mm

    so 2mm wire with outside diameter 22mm and 20 active links (ignore ends) is

    10 000 000 * 16 / 8000 / 20 = 1000 Newtons per m or 1 newton per mm. Too weak for an air rifle. Most air rifle springs are 5000 to 12000 Newtons per m spring constant.

    Thicker wire, lower diameter and less coils = stiffer.

  15. #15
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    Measuring spring rate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Beard View Post
    Spring constant is approximately (all dimensions mm and for steel springs):

    10^7 * wire diameter^4 / (outside dia-wire dia)^3 / number of coils

    to give the newtons per meter spring constant. Change 10^7 to 10^4 to give newtons per mm

    so 2mm wire with outside diameter 22mm and 20 active links (ignore ends) is

    10 000 000 * 16 / 8000 / 20 = 1000 Newtons per m or 1 newton per mm. Too weak for an air rifle. Most air rifle springs are 5000 to 12000 Newtons per m spring constant.

    Thicker wire, lower diameter and less coils = stiffer.
    For your formulas that model spring gun behavior...do you need this spring constant or is spring rate needed? Or both?

    I have wanted to try this but never dealt with the tools involved. I have read about the shadetree method of putting a bathroom or other scale down on a surface or press and using that to measure the force.

    But I'm reading about tools like these. Anybody use one? What pressure/force scale or rating would be appropriate for the springs inside a springer (a TX200 in this case). Seems like one of these in a vise or drill press (chuck a guide of some sort in the press and slip the spring over it) would do the trick.

    http://iyrs.org/Portals/0/Uploads/Im...log2%20139.jpg
    http://iyrs.org/Portals/0/Uploads/Im...log2%20141.jpg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVsrky0cpDs
    Good deals: davida6212 jimmer u.k.neil

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