Oscar Will - some help needed with restoration

[draitzer]

I've seen a couple oldies that had the flat piston seal held on with brass "claws" through the leather, bent over and flattened into the face of the leather - like a nail poking forward with the head back inside the piston. You might consider this possibility.

Don R.

[torrens]

I think you're right Don. I don't remember for sure but when I rebuilt the Oscar Will referred to most likely I put the piston in a lathe and drilled and threaded a central hole. That way it's easy to source and fit a normal leather washer unit.

Tharg; I'd guess a piston washer for a Diana would work. I've had these from Protek Supplies, so if you measure the piston and get one the same size or a fraction larger then you just need some help drilling and threading a central hole.

Mick; yes I've seen washerless pistons in some Gem airguns and they work just fine, just seems a bit crude.

Cheers
torrens

[customstocker]

In a previous thread my rifle was identified as an oscar will break barrel rifle. I am looking for some leads to get some parts for the rifle, I would even consider buying restoration jobs to cannibalise them for what I need.
I am looking for a barrel hinge bolt and a breech seal. I think I need a part for the piston as there is no seal on it and can't see how the seal would attach, it's metal on metal clang when fired. Probably do with a new spring also.

Any help is very welcome.

hi I think I can help you with a barrel pivot pin , though there are a few different types, & try protek supplies for new piston seals . as for a breech seal if there is a place for it to fit in , the usual size is a 12mm/8mm ring in leather , its possible to replace the convolute springs with 3 bronze centering pieces & a webley mk3 spring cut in 2 & cut to size . gives a similar feel to the convolute type original springs ,anything more powerful (ox accelerator) for example will just feel horrible & make a negligable difference in muzzle velocity . the webley spring is a good one for these guns , but even with one of these chopped up & fitted you still wont be looking at much more than about 4 joules output . ive got a box of bugelspanner bits here .great guns these .

[torrens]

Hi customstocker,
the earlier threads were about a conventional Millita type break barrel Oscar Will, not the Bugelspanner you mention. Having said that I'm interested to hear it's possible to use a conventional spring with larger diameter spacers on the old gallery guns. The only Bugelspanner I've stripped had the usual massive volute springs and despite using a compressor it's the nearest I've come to taking out a window or an eye trying to release the springs. Reassembly was fun as well.

Cheers
torrens

[customstocker]

Hi customstocker,
the earlier threads were about a conventional Millita type break barrel Oscar Will, not the Bugelspanner you mention. Having said that I'm interested to hear it's possible to use a conventional spring with larger diameter spacers on the old gallery guns. The only Bugelspanner I've stripped had the usual massive volute springs and despite using a compressor it's the nearest I've come to taking out a window or an eye trying to release the springs. Reassembly was fun as well.

Cheers
torrens

i have a myford ml10 lathe that is really useful for rebuilding a bugelspanner , i use the tailstock to recompress the springs & get them back in their hole ! the trickiest is lining up the rectangle of the piston arm with the hole in the back plate ( worse on crank wound rifles ) for these ive made a bore light on a 30cm long rod (magic wand) that i poke down the barrel of the lathe tailstock to see what the hell is going on in the dark , its still a tricky business putting a crank rifle back together , without the wand theres alot of swearing required . ive come across at least 3 different lengths of convolute spring pairs, in, im guessing, different manufacturers airguns , after all , theres probably more copies out there than "original" originals . I had one marked Oscar Will that was obviously not genuine , theres a give away on the construction of the real Will guns, that is dog teeth triangles cut into the barrel pivot boss & the hook boss located on the underside of the barrel , these were to create a larger surface area for the braize to flow around the joints . the copycats didnt bother to do this on all the copies Ive seen so far . I had a gun without springs that i traded a webley tempest for , which i tried with some turned up bronze bushes & parts of a broken mk3 spring, as I had one lying around . i actually chronoed the results which might be interesting to people out there . these results were with a standard "Bugelspanner" in .25 smoothbore with Benjamin diablos & a new leather cup type piston seal ( Protek Supplies) , as , Im sorry , but the original stack of leather washers is just a waste of time .


1. original volute springs ; 85-86 mps
2. ox accelerator spring chopped to fit ( in 2 sections); 103-104 mps
3. webley mk3 chopped to fit (in 2 sections);107-109 mps

same set up but with a urethane parachute type seal turned from a 99a durometer skateboard wheel & a teflon breech seal ( rifle had a ring cut for this seal when i got it .)

1. volute springs; 119-120 mps
2. ox accelerator ; 110 mps
3. webley mk3 ;111-112 mps

next set up was webley spring only & moly paste

1.P.U parachute seal ;111-112 mps
2. leather cup seal; 115-117 mps which = 2.67 ft/lbs or 3.62 joules
not a colossally powerful airgun , but for sure ,one of the more elegant & fun to shoot airguns ive briefly owned .

Ive got a crank rifle coming soon which is from a German independent gun maker ( 1800s) & not a mass produced item , will be interesting to see what differences there are between it & an "original Will" type, barrel is 30" long & 6mm bore .

[ccdjg]

i have a myford ml10 lathe that is really useful for rebuilding a bugelspanner , i use the tailstock to recompress the springs & get them back in their hole ! the trickiest is lining up the rectangle of the piston arm with the hole in the back plate ( worse on crank wound rifles ) for these ive made a bore light on a 30cm long rod (magic wand) that i poke down the barrel of the lathe tailstock to see what the hell is going on in the dark , its still a tricky business putting a crank rifle back together , without the wand theres alot of swearing required . ive come across at least 3 different lengths of convolute spring pairs, in, im guessing, different manufacturers airguns , after all , theres probably more copies out there than "original" originals . I had one marked Oscar Will that was obviously not genuine , theres a give away on the construction of the real Will guns, that is dog teeth triangles cut into the barrel pivot boss & the hook boss located on the underside of the barrel , these were to create a larger surface area for the braize to flow around the joints . the copycats didnt bother to do this on all the copies Ive seen so far . I had a gun without springs that i traded a webley tempest for , which i tried with some turned up bronze bushes & parts of a broken mk3 spring, as I had one lying around . i actually chronoed the results which might be interesting to people out there . these results were with a standard "Bugelspanner" in .25 smoothbore with Benjamin diablos & a new leather cup type piston seal ( Protek Supplies) , as , Im sorry , but the original stack of leather washers is just a waste of time .


1. original volute springs ; 85-86 mps
2. ox accelerator spring chopped to fit ( in 2 sections); 103-104 mps
3. webley mk3 chopped to fit (in 2 sections);107-109 mps

same set up but with a urethane parachute type seal turned from a 99a durometer skateboard wheel & a teflon breech seal ( rifle had a ring cut for this seal when i got it .)

1. volute springs; 119-120 mps
2. ox accelerator ; 110 mps
3. webley mk3 ;111-112 mps

next set up was webley spring only & moly paste

1.P.U parachute seal ;111-112 mps
2. leather cup seal; 115-117 mps which = 2.67 ft/lbs or 3.62 joules
not a colossally powerful airgun , but for sure ,one of the more elegant & fun to shoot airguns ive briefly owned .

Ive got a crank rifle coming soon which is from a German independent gun maker ( 1800s) & not a mass produced item , will be interesting to see what differences there are between it & an "original Will" type, barrel is 30" long & 6mm bore .

Very interesting data. I have always wondered if convolute springs are more or less efficient than coil springs. One advantage of the convolute system is that you can squash a long spring into a smaller space than an equivalent length coil spring, which would have been useful in pistols.

Is your forthcoming crank airgun anything like this one ? http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...psd42fa34f.jpg I picked this up for £290 a while ago on a whim, but it carries no markings so I have no idea of maker or age.

[torrens]

Hi customstocker,
that's interesting info on bugelspanners, I like the lathe idea for reassembling them. Most of them have very short squat cylinders, much less efficient than a smaller diameter longer air cylinder and as you say dodgy leather disc washers don't help. Then again you only need low power if using .25 darts. The one I had was about 4 ft lb. It was ok with darts but also fun with .25 Rhino's; tin cans at 20 yards were an exercise in holdover artillery, really knocked them about as the pellets made a dent but didn't go through.

Nice find there ccdjg.....if they've another at that money I'd have it!

Cheers
torrens